Coronavirus

[Nicepix 5,650]

7 minutes ago, Accip74 said:

It was gleaned from the fact that pandemics have been spoken as threat for years by science, not me, what do I know? But warnings have been there to governments, some obviously more serious than others, but this isn’t totally unexpected, just a massive surprise to us all that it actually became real.

Yeah. Like  SARS and all the other recent pandemics that were supposed to decimate the masses but just faded away.  Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

[Jonjon79 13,340]

7 minutes ago, Accip74 said:

It was gleaned from the fact that pandemics have been spoken as threat for years by science, not me, what do I know? But warnings have been there to governments, some obviously more serious than others, but this isn’t totally unexpected, just a massive surprise to us all that it actually became real.

And there you go - you just hit the nail right on the head

 ......... That's exactly what it was and, that's exactly why no one was fully prepared for it. 

 

 

What I've been saying is that we haven't got any friends in Europe when the chips are down - they robbed our kit the first chance they got.

[THE STIFFMEISTER 14,558]

I f***ing hate that attitude man , what we should have done , what we could have used , 

its here now . 

Its not leaving . 

We are doing things about it now. 

We will continue to do things about it. 

f***ing embarrassing people always looking for those to blame immediately . Reflect in hindsight after the event and be better next time . 

“ Thinking about ploughing doesn’t get it done “ 

[THE STIFFMEISTER 14,558]

Katch 

 

empty your inbox 

[mushroom 12,388]

31 minutes ago, gnasher16 said:

Im just curious....i know theres a few lads on here from various European countries Spain,France,Belgium etc....tell me,since this virus has been rampaging through Europe has your mainstream medias spent the entire time bitching and slagging off your governments.....or is it just a British thing ?

There's a wee bit of bitching going on but to be fair, it's nowhere near as bad as Blighty. Cnuts want to be ashamed of themselves. Instead of getting behind the gov and getting the population onboard (which is what for the greater part has happened here), they've gone for the snipey, cowardly me me me shit! So have a large part of the population too!! I had to have words with my eldest yesterday because she wanted to go into work to pick up her packet. Told her wtf your money will be there when your next shift is and you don't need it anyway. Turns out she's sweet on a lad there, so that was a major factor in me expressly forbidding her to go back there ever again  

The selfish cnuts, wandering about and continuing as normal want a slap imo.

Edited April 20, 2020 by mushroom

[Accip74 7,112]

37 minutes ago, gnasher16 said:

Im just curious....i know theres a few lads on here from various European countries Spain,France,Belgium etc....tell me,since this virus has been rampaging through Europe has your mainstream medias spent the entire time bitching and slagging off your governments.....or is it just a British thing ?

The Belgians are just shocked this fractured little country has managed to coordinate quite a good response. The population seem pretty compliant & the food shops have been brilliant in the way they’ve handled it.

As for the media I don’t follow it. My mum knows more about what’s going on here than me

[shaaark 10,133]

1 hour ago, Jonjon79 said:

Of course they spend money on defence - most countries do. I don't see what's funny about it.

 

Now you're being obtuse - I didn't say that past viruses are science fiction.

f****n love that word, OBTUSE

41 minutes ago, low plains drifter said:

Does anybody cook their own popcorn, and if so where do you buy the kernels ?

f****n hate popcorn . Look at that word above lpd, OBTUSE 

[Bobtheferret 1,224]

I think people like sandy need to firstly save all this shit for after this is over now is not the time for petty political points scoring, secondly the who advice was followed and they are a disgrace of an organisation that have made the entire thing worse, thirdly until this is over and we have accurate death rates from all counties we will not know who has done best. There is ever chance we will never have a vacation against it and countries like Germany will end up with a similar death rate to every one else but take longer to get there doing more damage to society in the process. Fourth the government are stuck between a rock and a hard place they are f****d whatever they do, labour told us that poverty and austerity killed thousands how many will die through lockdowns that start to soon and last to long? Fifth the government have followed scientific advice throughout (admittedly some poor advice) and have reacted accordingly. 

The media and the nay sayers will have their turn to pile in on the government and mistakes have been made but these are unprecedented times and we are learning as we go and constant gotcha journalism and points scoring is helping no one. We need more facts and less scaremongering and hysteria.

[sandymere 8,261]

1 hour ago, NEWKID said:

No government could've got it right  ... it's a never before seen event...political point scoring now is sad imo..

Its not about getting it right but how we manage it, and we aren't doing as well as we should and its costing lives. 

If Germany can do it, Korea and NZ can do it its time to ask questions. 

If you see someone doing a rubbish job building a wall do you leave them till they have fecked it even though it would cost the lives of passers by or do you say as soon as you realise? 

[Qbgrey 3,983]

In the same,dont like blaming people,especially now we need to come together,im not political,its all above me.the media should be put on stop,i.e making shite up for ratings.on the other hand the govt are great at bolstering up the nation with the war style resolve,clapping,etc,right or wrong,but certainly the nhs workers have been great and i always been gratefull when my dads been in hospital,i get very vocal when someone comes in,shouting,or moaning.these people were doing the best in nhs.i have a bad feeling this will come back and haunt the govt tho,especially,those who lost family members.look at hong kong.next door to,china,no water seperating the two,just a border people freely,driving,boat,walking,train,plane between.but hong kong were prepared,considering they are some many people crammed in,they lost only 1200 deaths.

Edited April 20, 2020 by Qbgrey

[sandymere 8,261]

1 hour ago, Greyman said:

Sadly you would be ashamed of us even if no one died,  the death rate in this country for March is actually lower than the same period last year

Honestly, the mind boggles. So thousands aren't dying........... 

 

1 hour ago, gnasher16 said:

Im just curious....i know theres a few lads on here from various European countries Spain,France,Belgium etc....tell me,since this virus has been rampaging through Europe has your mainstream medias spent the entire time bitching and slagging off your governments.....or is it just a British thing ?

You happy with this? Would you expect the media to call mismanagement to account? Or should we all just brush it under the carpet, after all what's a few thousand unnecessary death eh. 

.. 

 

Edited April 20, 2020 by sandymere

[Blackmag 5,870]

Sandy you are more relentless that max and that's saying something 

[sandymere 8,261]

Germany’s virus response shines unforgiving light on Britain Johnson’s shifting strategy has left UK behind on testing, critical care beds and ventilators. Even through this dark month of unimaginable shocks, one thing is still guaranteed to make British ministers and officials bristle: mentioning the Germans. “Arrgh,” sighed one senior adviser, stung by unflattering comparisons. With the pandemic bearing down, Boris Johnson on March 17 called on Britain’s captains of industry to start building ventilators to supplement the country’s stock of 8,000, lightheartedly dubbing the scheme “Operation Last Gasp”.  But almost a week before the prime minister spoke, Germany had ordered 10,000 from an established manufacturer, adding to its existing 20,000 machines. This week Germany had more than twice as many critical care beds vacant — around 15,000 to 20,000 — as England has in its system overall. Even more stark is relative performance on testing. The UK and Germany entered the crisis in lock-step, working together on virus tests, some of the first developed in the world. But Germany’s labs ran at more than five-times the NHS rate, completing 918,460 tests versus Britain’s 163,194.  Only on Thursday did Matt Hancock, the health secretary, declare Britain would “ramp up” efforts by harnessing private facilities — just as the global supply of chemicals and testing equipment was being squeezed. “Germany had 100 test labs at the start, largely thanks to Roche, but we had to start from a lower base,” he said. “We are going to build a British diagnostics industry at scale.” Experts say it is too early to judge how different policy choices have affected countries during this global pandemic. Germany’s advantages stem from decades of higher health spending, alongside an industrial base better able to scale-up for an emergency. Even with this head-start, German ministers admit they are in “the calm before the storm”; in terms of deaths, the country is on a similar coronavirus trajectory to the UK. But Berlin’s strategy has nevertheless held up an unforgiving mirror to Britain’s government. This is not just with regard to NHS capacity — tuned more for resource efficiency than resilience — but the quality and pace of decision making. The charge: that Britain’s strategy twisted and turned, squandering precious time.  “It just wasn't consistent. They tested various strategies and rejected them,” said Martin Stuermer, a virologist at IMD Labor in Frankfurt. “They had this plan to allow life to go on but ensure that elderly people were protected. But then they abandoned that. And they weren't prepared for mass testing. but the main problem was that the government just didn't chart a clear course in this crisis — unlike the German government.” The implications may soon become terrifyingly clear. UK infections are expected to peak by Easter Sunday. Mr Johnson was slow to grip the coronavirus crisis. Evidence coming out of China about the disease in February was deemed unreliable and there was a hope it would burn itself out, like Sars in 2003. There was an element of British exceptionalism to it Treasury official on UK government strategy Although Whitehall had started working up contingency plans from the start of 2020, the lack of urgency was summed up by Mr Johnson’s decision to disappear for a week in late February to his grace-and-favour Chevening home. It was only on March 2 that he chaired his first coronavirus emergency meeting. At this point advisers were envisaging a spread of the virus through Britain — controlled by escalating social distancing measures — with a peak around mid-May to early-June. “Glastonbury should be all right,” one minister told anxious colleagues, referring to the world’s biggest music festival in late June. Rather than following countries like South Korea in taking immediate draconian action to stop the disease — including the use of mass testing — Mr Johnson’s team thought a more modulated approach would ultimately save more lives and cause less economic harm.  Patrick Vallance, the UK’s chief scientific adviser, found a willing ally in Dominic Cummings, Mr Johnson’s chief adviser, in embracing the concept of “herd immunity”, where the disease passed through healthy members of the population. Mr Cummings referred to the concept in a 2013 blog. “There was an element of British exceptionalism to it,” said one Treasury official.  Editor’s note The Financial Times is making key coronavirus coverage free to read to help everyone stay informed. Find the latest here. Crucially during this time, Public Health England, a government agency, also advised that mass-testing was not feasible. Neil Ferguson, a professor at Imperial College and government adviser, told parliament it was “very clear from messages from PHE that we would have nowhere near enough testing capacity to adopt that strategy”. Unlike Germany’s decentralised and at times unwieldy system, the UK chose to concentrate efforts in superlabs, in part to ensure reliability. Sharon Peacock of PHE said it was preferable to “dissipating our efforts into a lot of laboratories”. One senior academic said PHE struggled to delegate one of its core functions; the service had been “hanging around waiting for the next epidemic. That is what they are paid to do,” he said. But in practice it meant that while Germany broadened its testing strategy to cover all those with mild symptoms — the core of a strategy to test, trace and isolate people infected with the virus — by March, Britain was struggling to scale up. The approach was narrowed to testing only hospital admissions. Only 5,000 of approx 500,000 frontline NHS workers had been tested by Thursday.  Donald Trump was to say later that if Britain had persisted with the herd immunity approach it would have been “catastrophic”. But that had already become clear to Mr Johnson and his team by the weekend of March 14-15. New data from Italy confirmed the disease was spreading faster than previously thought, with more patients ending up in intensive care units: Imperial College warned about 250,000 people would have died in the UK without a change of course. Worse still, ministers were advised that even if NHS intensive care capacity was doubled or trebled, it would be overwhelmed three times over. Mr Hancock, Michael Gove, cabinet office minister, and Mr Cummings now urged Mr Johnson to put aside his libertarian instincts and effectively lock down Britain. “The three of them saw it immediately,” said one Number 10 official. Another official involved in the strategy change said: “When the facts change, you change your mind.” Restrictions on social life lagged behind some of Germany’s states by a week or so, but the differences with Britain were less pronounced than with some other countries. More consequential for Britain was the gaping flaw the strategy change exposed in Britain’s preparations. The only exit strategies from the lockdown appeared to be a vaccine or antiviral treatments — still thought to be many months away — or mass community testing to allow restrictions to be eased without triggering a second wave.  “If you follow a herd immunity strategy, why would you not build treatment and testing capacity? That’s what puzzles me,” asked Devi Sridhar, professor of global health at Edinburgh University. “I think it is because they were taking everything from the flu playbook. In flu you don’t have to chase every case down, you don’t test in the community or medical staff . . . But coronavirus is not flu.”  To expand treatment, Britain has already doubled its critical care bed capacity this month and aims to acquire up to 50,000 ventilators in total. Some 30 are due to arrive this weekend but 8,000 are expected in the next few weeks. But time is very short. Since the beginning of the outbreak Germany has amassed 10,000.  Recommended AnalysisCoronavirus With Johnson under fire, blame game begins over virus crisis Mr Johnson appealed to household names such as Airbus, Nissan, Dyson and McLaren to aid the effort. But some established medical equipment makers felt left in the cold. “They’ve overlooked the real manufacturers in the system,” said one person at a medical devices maker who asked not to be named. Ministers insist they have pursued all avenues, engaging with industry since February. Blame over testing mis-steps is being directed by ministers at the NHS bureaucracy and PHE. “They’re proud of their independence and won’t yield for anyone,” said one minister of health officials. “The same is true for Public Health England: they’re the reason we don’t have more testing. They want to control the whole tedious process.” For doctors a long way downstream from the decisions in Whitehall, the impression has overwhelmingly been one of dithering and delay caused by theoreticians being left to manage an emergency.  “To us on the frontline, it feels like this is what happens when you let epidemiologists in charge of the real world,” said an NHS consultant from Hertfordshire on the Covid frontline. “What has never been explained to those working in respiratory care is why there wasn't 'test, test, test', then isolate, contact and trace again, which is the absolute basis of public health and infection control. Now they seem to have reacted, but it's all too late.

https://www.ft.com/content/c4155982-3b8b-4a26-887d-169db6fe4244

 

Edited April 20, 2020 by sandymere

[Qbgrey 3,983]

Even macau,right on chinas doorsteep,1000 s of mainlanders travel thier every day to prostitution,gamble,drink,eat etc,how many people died in macau,which should by rights been absolutely wiped out.????

[sandymere 8,261]

11 minutes ago, Blackmag said:

Sandy you are more relentless that max and that's saying something 

Come to work with me, watch people die.... Whilst knowing that many could have been avoided. I'm not as relentless as covid 19.