Us English Should Have The Vote

[jukel123 6,570]

Well, I woke up this morning and have been listening all about the subject on radio 4, various bollocks from both sides.

Now I have always maintained I want Scotland to remain part of the UK and I still feel that really BUT it occurred to me, it don't really matter a f**k to me any more as I don't live in the U.K.

 

And then I thought something else, if we have had a vote on our independence as the UK it's a bit rich to then try and deny Scotland the same, in reality you can't with anything like a straight face.

And what's more, in this time of major political changes (which I think is long overdue in the west) a smaller, poorer country may not actually be the disaster everyone talks about (for Scotland or England).......I think too much stock is put on GDP as a measure of happiness when it fact it seems that as GDP gets bigger people's actual life gets worse.

Maybe a poorer country would be less populated by those who come to exploit the financial opportunities, a smaller country should in theory be a friendlier place to live.

Maybe getting back to a simpler, poorer time is exactly what we need ?

So, maybe it's worth throwing all the cards in the air and seeing how they fall because what the UK has at the moment is shit in many people's eyes.

It is shit. Draw any comparison you like between the UK and comparable countries and you will see exactly how UK politicians, (in particular the tories) have nothing but contempt for we 'little' people. Pensions, way behind Spain, Germany and almost anywhere in Europe. Health service spending way behind Germany, France and and almost anywhere in Europe. Education spending way behind. Affordable social housing way behind. Job security a joke. Try offering zero hours contracts to a frenchman or a german! Infrastructure spending non existent. Why? Because of the entrenched class system in this country. There are very few countries in the world where there is so much class segregation as the UK. The tories pass laws to suit their well heeled buddies and the multinationals. We, the working class have nobody to fight for us. In the past we had the unions and the Labour Party. Now we are screwed . I think the quality of life has deteriorated for everybody in the UK over the decades. The average family now has both parents working 24/7 just to pay an exorbitant rent and keep shoes on the kids' feet. I think people voted for Brexit thinking they would at least be governed by brits and there would be less immigrants competing for jobs and housing. But in my view the people doing the governing in this country are the real enemy, not the Brussels bureacrats. The level of immigration will continue as long as there are shit jobs for them to fill. They will simply let them in with visas. They will still need to live somewhere so there will still be pressure on housing which will continue to put up rents. The tories don't care about the NHS or schools or crime ridden areas. They have private health care, private education and live well away from cities and housing estates where crime is common.

I think eventually there will be change, because things are becoming intolerable for ordinary people.

[mackay 3,054]

The snp have got to go all out for independence at this moment as it is highly unlikely they will ever be in such a strong position again, the level of support, the amount of mp's and a gift in the form of brexit, in short, it's their best time.

So if nothing else you can understand their timing, whether you agree with them or their reasons is a totally different matter.

Where they very well will fall down in my opinion though is assuming everyone who voted for them is for independence and is pro European, it might seem strange as independence is the top of their agenda but the amount of Scots who like the devolved government and want to stay united with the rest of the uk will be greater than they think. In short, a vote for the snp is not automatically a vote to break up the union.

[jacknife 2,005]

If they do get another independence vote and it goes the same as the last.....what then wait a couple of years and try again

 

Surely the uncertainty will be bad for the Scottish economy

[Accip74 7,112]

 

Well, I woke up this morning and have been listening all about the subject on radio 4, various bollocks from both sides.

Now I have always maintained I want Scotland to remain part of the UK and I still feel that really BUT it occurred to me, it don't really matter a f**k to me any more as I don't live in the U.K.

And then I thought something else, if we have had a vote on our independence as the UK it's a bit rich to then try and deny Scotland the same, in reality you can't with anything like a straight face.

And what's more, in this time of major political changes (which I think is long overdue in the west) a smaller, poorer country may not actually be the disaster everyone talks about (for Scotland or England).......I think too much stock is put on GDP as a measure of happiness when it fact it seems that as GDP gets bigger people's actual life gets worse.

Maybe a poorer country would be less populated by those who come to exploit the financial opportunities, a smaller country should in theory be a friendlier place to live.

Maybe getting back to a simpler, poorer time is exactly what we need ?

So, maybe it's worth throwing all the cards in the air and seeing how they fall because what the UK has at the moment is shit in many people's eyes.

 

It is shit. Draw any comparison you like between the UK and comparable countries and you will see exactly how UK politicians, (in particular the tories) have nothing but contempt for we 'little' people. Pensions, way behind Spain, Germany and almost anywhere in Europe. Health service spending way behind Germany, France and and almost anywhere in Europe. Education spending way behind. Affordable social housing way behind. Job security a joke. Try offering zero hours contracts to a frenchman or a german! Infrastructure spending non existent. Why? Because of the entrenched class system in this country. There are very few countries in the world where there is so much class segregation as the UK. The tories pass laws to suit their well heeled buddies and the multinationals. We, the working class have nobody to fight for us. In the past we had the unions and the Labour Party. Now we are screwed . I think the quality of life has deteriorated for everybody in the UK over the decades. The average family now has both parents working 24/7 just to pay an exorbitant rent and keep shoes on the kids' feet. I think people voted for Brexit thinking they would at least be governed by brits and there would be less immigrants competing for jobs and housing. But in my view the people doing the governing in this country are the real enemy, not the Brussels bureacrats. The level of immigration will continue as long as there are shit jobs for them to fill. They will simply let them in with visas. They will still need to live somewhere so there will still be pressure on housing which will continue to put up rents. The tories don't care about the NHS or schools or crime ridden areas. They have private health care, private education and live well away from cities and housing estates where crime is common.

I think eventually there will be change, because things are becoming intolerable for ordinary people.

In a few years the Tories will have to start taking it on the chin......a few years ago, everything wrong with the UK was down to the Labour Party, then last year, everything wrong with the UK was down to the EU haha.....The Tories will govern for many years to come now, so eventually they'll be no one else to blame....

...in the mean time society will erode even more, suffering from chronic apathy, more of the same shit under a different guise.....

You see it in Belgium, the people totally f****d over for years, taxes coming out of their arses, without the infrastructure to match :-(

[mackay 3,054]

Pretty much the same if the snp achieved independence every fcuk up in Scotland since Jesus rode a donkey has been blamed on the tories/English.

Who would they find to blame?.

[villaman 9,980]

 

Well, I woke up this morning and have been listening all about the subject on radio 4, various bollocks from both sides.

Now I have always maintained I want Scotland to remain part of the UK and I still feel that really BUT it occurred to me, it don't really matter a f**k to me any more as I don't live in the U.K.

 

And then I thought something else, if we have had a vote on our independence as the UK it's a bit rich to then try and deny Scotland the same, in reality you can't with anything like a straight face.

And what's more, in this time of major political changes (which I think is long overdue in the west) a smaller, poorer country may not actually be the disaster everyone talks about (for Scotland or England).......I think too much stock is put on GDP as a measure of happiness when it fact it seems that as GDP gets bigger people's actual life gets worse.

Maybe a poorer country would be less populated by those who come to exploit the financial opportunities, a smaller country should in theory be a friendlier place to live.

Maybe getting back to a simpler, poorer time is exactly what we need ?

So, maybe it's worth throwing all the cards in the air and seeing how they fall because what the UK has at the moment is shit in many people's eyes.

It is shit. Draw any comparison you like between the UK and comparable countries and you will see exactly how UK politicians, (in particular the tories) have nothing but contempt for we 'little' people. Pensions, way behind Spain, Germany and almost anywhere in Europe. Health service spending way behind Germany, France and and almost anywhere in Europe. Education spending way behind. Affordable social housing way behind. Job security a joke. Try offering zero hours contracts to a frenchman or a german! Infrastructure spending non existent. Why? Because of the entrenched class system in this country. There are very few countries in the world where there is so much class segregation as the UK. The tories pass laws to suit their well heeled buddies and the multinationals. We, the working class have nobody to fight for us. In the past we had the unions and the Labour Party. Now we are screwed . I think the quality of life has deteriorated for everybody in the UK over the decades. The average family now has both parents working 24/7 just to pay an exorbitant rent and keep shoes on the kids' feet. I think people voted for Brexit thinking they would at least be governed by brits and there would be less immigrants competing for jobs and housing. But in my view the people doing the governing in this country are the real enemy, not the Brussels bureacrats. The level of immigration will continue as long as there are shit jobs for them to fill. They will simply let them in with visas. They will still need to live somewhere so there will still be pressure on housing which will continue to put up rents. The tories don't care about the NHS or schools or crime ridden areas. They have private health care, private education and live well away from cities and housing estates where crime is common.

I think eventually there will be change, because things are becoming intolerable for ordinary people.

 

What a load of rubbish

[villaman 9,980]

Well, I woke up this morning and have been listening all about the subject on radio 4, various bollocks from both sides.

Now I have always maintained I want Scotland to remain part of the UK and I still feel that really BUT it occurred to me, it don't really matter a f**k to me any more as I don't live in the U.K.

 

And then I thought something else, if we have had a vote on our independence as the UK it's a bit rich to then try and deny Scotland the same, in reality you can't with anything like a straight face.

And what's more, in this time of major political changes (which I think is long overdue in the west) a smaller, poorer country may not actually be the disaster everyone talks about (for Scotland or England).......I think too much stock is put on GDP as a measure of happiness when it fact it seems that as GDP gets bigger people's actual life gets worse.

Maybe a poorer country would be less populated by those who come to exploit the financial opportunities, a smaller country should in theory be a friendlier place to live.

Maybe getting back to a simpler, poorer time is exactly what we need ?

So, maybe it's worth throwing all the cards in the air and seeing how they fall because what the UK has at the moment is shit in many people's eyes.

They had a vote , just because it didn't go there way and now they want another , like i said us English should have a the vote

[THE STIFFMEISTER 14,571]

I live on the border, the English side, I don't really feel English, im not, neither are most of my mates, we all have a Scottish mam or a jock grandma or papa

 

Genetically I have more in common with a lad from Glasgow than from Manchester, I have more in common, I support a jock football team, I worked in Scotland from 16 till 23 , I probably have more Scottish friends than English

 

My maternal uncle was born in Scotland , lived there as an infant moved when he was about 6 to England and has worked over the border for nearly forty years , our family are all Scottish, his interests of shooting, photography and hill walking are all carried out in Scotland

 

He's a Scottish man living 3 miles into England

 

Yet he had f**k all input into the referendum

 

But my cousin who lives 20 miles north and has never worked a day in Scotland did

 

Where will an independence yes leave me and my uncle as homeowners on the border?

 

Going to Scotland is an everyday occurrence for us, will it mean a toll?

 

What effect will it have on the price of our house in a town where roughly 50 percent of the population are extracted from scots or work in Scotland

 

There are 25 names in my phone right now of lads I knock about with who live in England yet work and spend the majority of time in Scotland, lads who are English as f**k but were born in Dumfries infirmary

 

Where will it leave me financially ? And more worryingly them?

 

My jobs pretty secure , but for a lot of my friends they are tradesmen or their wives are employed in hospitality or retail over the border, what of their jobs?

 

When the snp can't even tell us what currency they are going to use?

[Torquemada 288]

Joe1888 lives in a fantasy world where he, and the rest of his ilk are victims.

 

That poisonous dwarf will push the victim angle and frankly create divisions in our society that weren't there before. She is a divisive evil, horror of a woman and should hang her head in shame.

Edited March 18, 2017 by Torquemada

[scothunter 12,609]

Stiffmeister don't concern yourself the union is solid. Its safe in the hands of the loyalists. We won't let it happen!

[nothernlite 18,028]

How much money is this going to cost that could of been spent else where in Scotland

[ChrisJones 7,973]

Well, I woke up this morning and have been listening all about the subject on radio 4, various bollocks from both sides.

Now I have always maintained I want Scotland to remain part of the UK and I still feel that really BUT it occurred to me, it don't really matter a f**k to me any more as I don't live in the U.K.

 

And then I thought something else, if we have had a vote on our independence as the UK it's a bit rich to then try and deny Scotland the same, in reality you can't with anything like a straight face.

And what's more, in this time of major political changes (which I think is long overdue in the west) a smaller, poorer country may not actually be the disaster everyone talks about (for Scotland or England).......I think too much stock is put on GDP as a measure of happiness when it fact it seems that as GDP gets bigger people's actual life gets worse.

Maybe a poorer country would be less populated by those who come to exploit the financial opportunities, a smaller country should in theory be a friendlier place to live.

Maybe getting back to a simpler, poorer time is exactly what we need ?

So, maybe it's worth throwing all the cards in the air and seeing how they fall because what the UK has at the moment is shit in many people's eyes.

Bold but, like you said, it might be necessary.

 

Over this side I always hear the argument regarding the economy. To us that means will we get a few scraps here and there but when you look at the news stations, and those pretty graphs, you're seeing billionaires become trillionaires... It doesn't mean much to the average worker other than more overtime for less money...

 

Personally I think the SNP should honour the original referendum. Again it was the will of the people and you shouldn't be able to keep having a do-over until you get the result you want, especially when the results of the last referendums, while conclusive, were far from unanimous.

 

What I'm more interested in knowing, from both Brexit and IndyRef [insert Number Here] is what are our panel of experts going to do once they get their way? Just on this forum alone, hearing individual reasons for voting based on their perceived grievance, we have many crosses to bear and not a single one has offered a solution to fix the problems facing the union in the coming decades.

 

Independence was the goal. The goal was achieved... Now what? How do you fix the mess that caused you to vote in the first place?

[Lab 10,979]

Stiffmeister don't concern yourself the union is solid. Its safe in the hands of the loyalists. We won't let it happen!

Leaning back to a yes vote now..?

[scothunter 12,609]

Lol@lab sorry unionists

[Malt 379]

Now what? How do you fix the mess that caused you to vote in the first place?

They don't, they just spend the next 100 years creating more mess while blaming it all on the way things were before independence was achieved..