I have a pup out of David's dog's he runs well and I have seen more then a hand full run in the past, I can not put picks up as my computer not playing ball or I would put some picks up. This topic could and probably will go round in circles both for and against getting a pup from David and Sally, but what I will say is this you will get a collie x be that a first x or 2nd x No bizza this or that.