Casso
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Everything posted by Casso
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that point is very interesting because if you can have that sort of an understanding with a wild feline then the possibilities of a understanding developing between a wild canine and man must be 10 fold, what i mean is canines are must more trusting on a basic level, when is the last time you tried to give a moggy a tummy rub without the cat breaking down into a instinctual grab hold and bite situation, canine are much more intuitive of mans honest intentions, man and canine grew together through a mutual desire to hunt, each understanding the others intentions on a very basic level,, pr
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that point is very interesting because if you can have that sort of an understanding with a wild feline then the possibilities of a understanding developing between a wild canine and man must be 10 fold, what i mean is canines are must more trusting on a basic level, when is the last time you tried to give a moggy a tummy rub without the cat breaking down into a instinctual grab hold and bite situation, canine are much more intuitive of mans honest intentions, man and canine grew together through a mutual desire to hunt, each understanding the others intentions on a very basic level,,
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in cases like this bud where the dog just doesn't want to jump for the sake of it, leave him to do what he wants, he will jump something when he needs too like the wall, but like any animal unlike man he will only use whatever energy he needs too in any situation, energy to him like any animal is his most valuable resource, and the value of the energy output to jump everything you want him too, just dont add up to him, Nature know best,,best of luck with him,
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Wolves are all instinct and no drive, instinct is fear based, There is no wolf out there who is going to put himself through the mill like a highly driven dog, the reason for this is because there are are no vets in the wild, self preservation is the order of the day, Given what we expect from a honest running dog, bravery with a never say die attitude ,the wolf wouldn't be high on my list for a working animal
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the problem with some of those dogs in general is that the work they were bred to do is changing or has to change, the hound was not originally bred to race it was bred to catch , it has evolved into an animal bred solely to run and not catch, the pit bred for combat , a process through which a dog needed to be bred to have plenty of heart, and that big heart can be put to other uses as hog hunters in the states have shown, some of them wont keep a dog aggressive pit, just wont tolerate it , the pit can be a very adaptable animal given the right work which allow him to express his drive,
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i believe in ancient times gone by we would have had a very different outlook on the creatures around us, we somehow believe the hunter of long ago would have had the same outlook as today's hunter with his if it moves kill it attitude, We dont have to look into ancient times to gauge the thinking of relatively modern hunters, take the Native Americans as an example, they're view on fellow animals who shared their plains and environments was one of respect , respect for animals they ate,and the other large animals around them, brother bear and brother wolf was how they viewed such an
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OK I could have been somewhat more explanatory in my reply "prey drive " is only part of a group of drives that can be harnessed within a dog,There is a distinct difference in a dogs behaviour and demeanour when the prey or hunt drives are triggered in its most simplistic imagine a pack of wolves tracking a prey item the prey drive is not engaged the hunt drive is as they are searching with their other senses for their meal and are receptive to outside influence once the meal is sighted though prey drive takes over smell/noise is irelevant sight alone will do, focus is held on the item in que
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the story of the canine is evolution fast tracked, we needed a dog to hunt a certain animal and somehow it evolved ,and we are talking about a time where people largely stayed in their own communities , 100 miles was a very long journey taking days and huge effort, so it would seem to me that dog evolved without much selective breeding and that the purpose and function of the dog had huge effect on genetics, i believe the dog is so entwined with us and its working environment that genetically it can be effected by its environment, There are a number of dogs out there who can swap rol
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there are mutations born in all life forms, in the wild they dont survive, especially in carnivores, under the relative safety of man protection, dogs have mutated into all forms, its that simple bud
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we are talking about a situation where man and wolf would have followed the herd , thousands of animals involved , think about the bison in north america vast herds, and prey to both wolf and man,
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perhaps it was the easy pickings around primitive man's camp that attracted the more docile wolf, perhaps with these hanging around the camp they gave primitive man some protection from other wild animals, maybe it wasn't a deliberate thing with either side dominating the other more of a humble beginning to a now long standing symbiotic relationship both humans and wolfs were pack animals, both were stimulated by the hunt, both are able to work in a team , both are able to follow another's gaze to a fixed point , there is too similarities based around the hunt, if people think the biggest
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the whole thinking behind man getting wolf cubs and rearing them is flawed, there is plenty of research down on bringing up hand reared cubs and it doesn't hold any water, It was the hunt , that turned the wolf into the dog, we can still see it in all our dogs today, there is no stronger pull in a dog, wolf and man were able to work together to fulfill a common goal , its the hunt now which makes a dog social and it was the hunt then which made the wolf social,
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until he settles down and comes back to himself as such, he is all in his head, new smells, new faces, sounds etc, this is a biggy with sensitive dogs in particular , until he feels safe and secure in himself he wont reference his gut, and when he does he will eat,
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hounds today are all drive and muscle, not bred to turn or catch and kill anything, and not bred to take instruction why would you want an animal not bred to catch unlike the saluki who was bred solely to catch under the most extremes of conditions a hounds feet are still playing catch up with its drive and failing miserably, a Ferrari engine with Renault brakes and tyres ,
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thats an interesting write up, with great pics, with a few dogs out it become more difficult to obtain behavior we all wish to see in the dogs, because once the energy has gone from the rabbit ie dead rabbit, it becomes a prize to be guarded, its a harder behavior to break in the day because at night with a single dog you can make the retrieve a must do if the dogs wishes to keep hunting, in a case where the mutt wont retrieve and has dropped short and came back without the bunny, i make him retrieve for us to keep lamping which is what he want anyway, it can take 5 , 10 ,20mins( easier if y
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bud, if the dog is on the same wavelength as you, it knows play is play and work is different, there is a bite in every dog waiting to get out, the dog can discriminate with enough work what needs biting hard and what doesn't, i've not had a dog yet who would destroy a rabbit like it would a fox, i like to show them what to bite hard , its like a fighter wont know how to spar easy til he knows how to hit the heavy bag, but if your afraid it will, by all means do what you you feel works for you,
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Dont play with the pup in the house ignore her as much as you can, outside play inside peace, a pup gets stimulated through learnt behavior to associate certain locations with certain mindsets and i would think thats what the problem is here, at her age if she flipping out in or around the home that her prey drive is seeping out in all sorts of lunatic behavior, with no clear channel to express drive which in clearly in every working whippet line she will be forced to express drive energy in her own and your envoirement, if you cant get her out doing with whippets do best, get her out c
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Are collie crosses too clever for the average lurcherman??.
Casso replied to mackay's topic in Lurchers & Running Dogs
i completely agree with this, the reason i like a bit of collie in a running dog is because the collie is an animal bred to listen and take instruction from man unlike a lot of sighthound and terrier crosses, a lurcher with collie blood can still be in drive and keep his owner in his frame of reference, same as a working sheepdog with the ability to focus on his task (herding sheep) while still listening to commands from his shepherd, -
keep the one with most drive about it, the one that just wants something more than the other, you can build a good bond with any pup but you cant put anymore heart in a pup thats not already there,,
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100 % no doubt, its not about control, its about understanding the nature of the beast, time to walk the mutts , many thanks for your input gentlemen,
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my point is this bud, if that dog on tv had grown up in my yard, how ever it was bred hard blood soft blood in fact whatever the breeding of it, i can wager my home on it that it would not have bitten that woman,100% we can call that nature vs nurture or whatever we choose but its not how i see it, because at the end of the the day its about understanding the canine whatever the blood soft or hard,,weak nerves or high drive, its all the same to me, its about dealing with the dog itself, not the process of training used to blanket all dogs and treat them all the same, best of luck
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If we are to truly believe that we understand the canine and as a forum that includes working dogs of different shapes and sizes, im sure a large majority do, We seem to all be able to offer advice based on the dominance theory, pack leadership, such as "he's only trying it on, trying to get above his station" given that this is the current thinking worldwide with the success and acclaim of one little Mexican Mr Milan who can do no wrong, poking dogs, chocking them and whatever else he feels will shut them down,into what he calls a calm submissive state, a dog that is shut down mentally
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i think part of the problem in discussing animals and dogs in particular is that we give them human thought values which is just basically wrong, serial killers and dogs compared in the same thread just exposes how much we make that link, apart from that, i come on here to learn ,ponder and enjoy this forum ,i dont discuss other folk and their experiences and their dogs, i have learnt through experience, knowledge pasted on from my father and his in turn and trial and error, and understand the laws of nature and how it works in our favor with dogs, on the other hand if someone is afraid
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they feckin knew the temperature this weekend at night was going to be low in Paris ,and didn't do anything about it, why they had to drag folk half way across Europe to tell them the pitch was unplayable 2 minutes before the game is beyond me, how was it going to be any other way with no heating system installed,
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i think part of the problem in discussing animals and dogs in particular is that we give them human thought values which is just basically wrong, serial killers and dogs compared in the same thread just exposes how much we make that link, apart from that, i come on here to learn ,ponder and enjoy this forum ,i dont discuss other folk and their experiences and their dogs, i have learnt through experience, knowledge pasted on from my father and his in turn and trial and error, and understand the laws of nature and how it works in our favor with dogs, on the other hand if someone is afraid
