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Beddlington x patterdale


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33 minutes ago, morton said:

Ive looked at many avenues that may have influenced the Beddy as a type terrier,at one time it was supposed to have originated from the fens and the dutch diggers,a long old slog up to Bedlington without a barge.The irish influence may be dismissed with a certain amount of certainty,foot distance.Its obvious the Bedlington,if you,ve ever owned one,is certainly influenced by a non terrier type,in the area it surfaced it was considered important that the terrier could keep up with the hounds and the hound lugs on the Beddy may offer another influence.To me no terrier was bred at the time unless it was worth breeding from,different times and different attitudes,the attitude in that area at that time was work or cull and anything that did not earn its corn would never have made any sort of impact in terrier production.Its impossible to know with any certainty what influenced the early terrier type production line except the fact that earth working terriers produced all of them and anything else was pointless,thus I'm heavily influenced by the terriers the todhunters wandered into those areas with,best grafter to best grafter was something that influenced the early types,generalised locations before transport made the evolution of the best recognised terriers the country will ever see,lakelands,borders and bedlingtons.

Thank you for the reply morton. I have not owned a Bedlington but hope to one day. The most time that I have spent with the breed was when a friend who lived next to me got one and lost interest in him. The man was into terriers and working them but the Beddy ended up too big for his criteria but fair play to him he kept it until its' death. I used to take it out for exercise and general rabbiting and ratting type stuff with my terriers. He was purely a digging man and his dogs spent most of their life in kennels :-).  It was a shy reserved type of dog initially but gained in confidence and loved to hunt even though never becoming part of the canine team.

I have spent a lot of time with a Spanish Water dog that I also did not own. That dog reminded me very much of the Bedlington and not just because of the physical similarities. 

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If a patterdale is lacking that much to make ye think  adding Bedlington is gonna make em better terriers then you've a fcukin screw loose or your related to morton. 

A dog is a dog... If it does the job, then it don't matter whats in em👍 There's been all sorts added to all the working terrier strains over the yrs....to improve  Colour, coat, conformation and

Think that is a very true comment blackmag, iv said over and over again lads want different things from there terriers ones mans cull will be one mans pot of gold. Different land different type of ear

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4 hours ago, eastcoast said:

Do you give any credence to the theory that some primitive type of water dog, pre-curly coated retriever or Irish water spaniel, may be in the Bedlington way back and account for some of it's unique, or at least none typical terrier qualities?

It was. Niether of them it was otterhound

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2 hours ago, morton said:

Ive a black terrier here,this bitch as no black ancestry apart from the Bedlington,the rest in the mix is red fell.I don,t hold much sway with the Border as that is a terrier that as always thrown to type and any input into the Bedlington never really proved its worth.George tried it and failed,others have tried it and failed.As they have common ancestry it surprises me the cross fails when the fell influence,with the same common ancestry flourishes.Its possibly why I strongly believe the Border terrier owned an outcross that failed with the Bedlington yet flourished with the Lakey,it makes little sense in the mix as both should produce.

George openly said putting border in the mix was a big mistake and regreted it , you can see why by just looking at the hideous looking things 

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5 hours ago, morton said:

The nearest thing to a patterdale is a black and tan Lakeland,there were black terriers around that area that heavily influenced by the Beddy that knew no Craut ancestry.The Scottish todhunters must have influenced the black terrier,thus the beddy,the records for this are as mysterious as the Fabled Rothbury.Its impossible for a foreign influence to influence the early stock as the travel restrictions at the time,walking distance,played the major part in breed selection.The lakelands,bedlingtons and Borders were bred in a very small part of the country.The area the packs and terriers hunted the fox,on foot,was a major influence on selective breeding and breed specific type terriers.

Not my words just repeting those of a well known born n bred patterdale hunt terrierman 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Loton Moocher said:

George openly said putting border in the mix was a big mistake and regreted it , you can see why by just looking at the hideous looking things 

Maybe when the kc lot got hold of them i agree they changed the game to money  but saying that I did see a couple that were worth owning and worked regular sometimes to hard for there own good  and I dug to a few  when others failed  including one I owned  but they did have there faults Levi  oaks offered me a bitch which I declined which I saw dug to she was decent bitch 

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7 hours ago, Blackmag said:

Maybe when the kc lot got hold of them i agree they changed the game to money  but saying that I did see a couple that were worth owning and worked regular sometimes to hard for there own good  and I dug to a few  when others failed  including one I owned  but they did have there faults Levi  oaks offered me a bitch which I declined which I saw dug to she was decent bitch 

Wasnt knocking borders nowt wrong with them in there own right bur there just not the out cross for beddys ? Lakeys and fell are far superior for that

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To use another breed of terrier over another to improve anything goes to show how far the one has fallen .I take my hat off to the few lads I know that are Beddy enthusiasts but can’t for the life of me understand why they are devoting a life of hunting to such a basket case .

Its like buying a split can rod for shark fishing .

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1 hour ago, foxdropper said:

To use another breed of terrier over another to improve anything goes to show how far the one has fallen .I take my hat off to the few lads I know that are Beddy enthusiasts but can’t for the life of me understand why they are devoting a life of hunting to such a basket case .

Its like buying a split can rod for shark fishing .

I take you have never dug a beddy then ?

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7 minutes ago, lurchers said:

Probably never seen 1 work like a lot of folk go on here say.

Mite need to hurry then as digging beddys will soon be extinct as those that have them have nowhere left to go to keep it goin as the gene pool is to small now ? Yes plenty beddys about working rats and rabbits but any cur can do that  , but go into the dark faceing somat with a. Bite more powerful than leopard is a different kettle of fish ?tbh even these beddy hybreds now may have more lakey or fell blood than beddy ? Yes theres band out there say they reviveing the working beddy but they never will on just rats n rabbits ? And thats a fact ?

 

 

 

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Do the people who try and keep the Bedlington type alive as a working terrier do so in the hope that they will have a strain of the perfect working terrier?  I don't think so but I have never owned one and it has been a good few years since I knew someone who did, but people still seem to be trying to keep an old English breed alive as working dog. Good luck to them.

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T

1 hour ago, eastcoast said:

Do the people who try and keep the Bedlington type alive as a working terrier do so in the hope that they will have a strain of the perfect working terrier?  I don't think so but I have never owned one and it has been a good few years since I knew someone who did, but people still seem to be trying to keep an old English breed alive as working dog. Good luck to them.

They are like a lot of breeds mate getting to leggy,instead of selective breeding and travelling for the right dog.They would rather use a dog around the corner and a cheaper stud fee.Greed for coin instead of keeping the type look at the plumber,borders and whippets for instance leggy as owt.

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1 hour ago, eastcoast said:

Do the people who try and keep the Bedlington type alive as a working terrier do so in the hope that they will have a strain of the perfect working terrier?  I don't think so but I have never owned one and it has been a good few years since I knew someone who did, but people still seem to be trying to keep an old English breed alive as working dog. Good luck to them.

And i agree but if you dont breed earth dogs you wont get earth dogs ? Why do you think gn went into hybreeds with lakey ? Because he said long ago the.  Beddy wasnt the dog it used to be ? I maybe now will be corrected and i hope for the beddys sake i am but i only know one in hunt service ? What spoilt the beddy was egos that wanted the name in print and cash ? And like what what mort has said no one has done more damage to the. Beddy that expert on everything glover and those that que for a mention in his plummer worded. Books , as earth dog the beddy will very soon be a thing of the past atb

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