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That old Bucks Otter Hounds print is one of my absolute favourite otter hunting prints. They were originally produced as a fund raiser for the B.O.H. and if my memory serves me right were at that time

White terriers of old       Kilkenny, Ireland 1908        

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On 06/06/2019 at 16:24, p3d said:

RH,

Some early photographs with Black terriers,

371631104_BlackTerrier106a.jpg.3fe40c35edb16e0284c9c7c9ba7e812a.jpg

Before 1930 above.

2082938636_BlackTerrier105a.jpg.3fec5640eefc8b6dc586a6bf13bc5149.jpg

Dobson on the left.

1049750957_kendalOtterhounds1930-02.jpg.54b577f983fa1d974bff687f69c43636.jpg

Kendlal Otterhounds 1930

115911601_SparticusAdvert01.jpg.6817fc140eef133e4796d9f95c896b49.jpg

Spartacus, Great Grandson of Smithy who was born 1972 so this must late 70's , maybe 76-78

Note Gould calls them all Black Fell types.

 

 

I remember Spartacus from the mid to late 80's. Ken would peg him and his progeny out for all to see a shows.

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4 minutes ago, forest of dean redneck said:

35 litters from 15 months old , so the dog was mated just into its first season of work ? 

 wonder how much ken Was charging for a service back then?  Bet he made some poppy out of his dogs ?

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Going back to the first black dogs( as we know them).

Here’s the pedigree for Breay’s ‘Gem’, it seems she’s the first proper black to appear.

053B00E4-911A-48E2-A608-824BD320AB59.jpeg.47dc54b43925fb359f408d1fc8daf0f8.jpeg

This is Gem

6E36F894-995A-4132-BADB-8B0A3762FEC3.jpeg.4566bba855e1ec721274d6ee98c6a18d.jpeg

And then there’s Davy, a son of Gem and so the type seems to have been set. 

1FAC626C-96CB-4444-BDF2-4A59A963F887.jpeg.f409630cf563dd1b004d5372031613eb.jpeg

So is it fair to say Gem was the first proper black? 

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your blinded by the black mate , you should be looking at Ruby's breeding ;)  we all know people that bred just worker to worker i have mate that does it he had a choc bitch off me and couldn't work out why if he mated her to a russell he got black pups or a red he got  black pups and so on , it's easy choc is recessive dilution gene , once you mate them to any terrier carrying a black gene even if its only the nose or a few black hairs the self( all one color )  stays dominant but the recessive becomes that and you get self colored blacks  there been black about for hundreds of years, i was breeding a old book about borders and there is mention of the root stock beddy's dandys and borders coming black its all about fashion what's in vogue  also a 150 years ago dogs with red or putty's noses where class as better finders , we all know that to be true now :) 

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