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That old Bucks Otter Hounds print is one of my absolute favourite otter hunting prints. They were originally produced as a fund raiser for the B.O.H. and if my memory serves me right were at that time

White terriers of old       Kilkenny, Ireland 1908        

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On 06/06/2019 at 16:24, p3d said:


Some early photographs with Black terriers,


Before 1930 above.


Dobson on the left.


Kendlal Otterhounds 1930


Spartacus, Great Grandson of Smithy who was born 1972 so this must late 70's , maybe 76-78

Note Gould calls them all Black Fell types.



I remember Spartacus from the mid to late 80's. Ken would peg him and his progeny out for all to see a shows.

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4 minutes ago, forest of dean redneck said:

35 litters from 15 months old , so the dog was mated just into its first season of work ? 

 wonder how much ken Was charging for a service back then?  Bet he made some poppy out of his dogs ?

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Going back to the first black dogs( as we know them).

Here’s the pedigree for Breay’s ‘Gem’, it seems she’s the first proper black to appear.


This is Gem


And then there’s Davy, a son of Gem and so the type seems to have been set. 


So is it fair to say Gem was the first proper black? 

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your blinded by the black mate , you should be looking at Ruby's breeding ;)  we all know people that bred just worker to worker i have mate that does it he had a choc bitch off me and couldn't work out why if he mated her to a russell he got black pups or a red he got  black pups and so on , it's easy choc is recessive dilution gene , once you mate them to any terrier carrying a black gene even if its only the nose or a few black hairs the self( all one color )  stays dominant but the recessive becomes that and you get self colored blacks  there been black about for hundreds of years, i was breeding a old book about borders and there is mention of the root stock beddy's dandys and borders coming black its all about fashion what's in vogue  also a 150 years ago dogs with red or putty's noses where class as better finders , we all know that to be true now :) 

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