Deker 3,453 Posted October 8, 2018 Report Share Posted October 8, 2018 4 minutes ago, ChrisJones said: Question of for the panel. If he had got out and been able to confront the attacker, was seriously/fatally injured in the process and the knifeman was able to inflict more casualties because the aim of the two armed police was now blocked by the unarmed chief what would the reaction be? Genuinely curious as this debate crops up a lot at work and it's interesting reading. The problem is the number of IFS! What if he got out of the car, smacked the knifeman and saved other casualties??? 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stumfelter 3,032 Posted October 8, 2018 Report Share Posted October 8, 2018 Probably thinking about his pension.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ChrisJones 7,973 Posted October 8, 2018 Report Share Posted October 8, 2018 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Deker said: The problem is the number of IFS! What if he got out of the car, smacked the knifeman and saved other casualties??? Agreed but every post on this thread is written from the viewpoint of what the individual would do in the same circumstances. There's no right or wrong answer because the incident played out the way it did. There is no do-over to see what would happen with prior warning of the event. Wasn't the knifeman the final casualty after the fallen PC? I'm unsure whether there were any more casualties at this time. Edited October 8, 2018 by ChrisJones Typo Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Blackbriar 8,568 Posted October 8, 2018 Report Share Posted October 8, 2018 It's easy, from a position of safety, to say "He should have done ABC", or "I would have done XYZ", but very few of us (thankfully) will ever find ourselves in such a position, so we can't possibly know what we might or might not do. BUT, he is an officer of the law, and a senior one at that, who should set an example to his officers, and lead from the front. I'm sure that other officers, and probably civilians too, were heading towards the chaos, to do what they could..........yet he made a decision to do nothing. He, above anyone else, must realise that he failed his colleague, and he will have to live with that ! 4 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Born Hunter 17,638 Posted October 8, 2018 Report Share Posted October 8, 2018 (edited) Let's not forget as well that being uniformed he would have become the immediate and primary target as soon as he entered matie's line of sight. Stepping out of that car out 'gunned' would have been close to suicidal. I'm not gonna judge the fella. I'd rather have my own means of self defence than all the plod in the country but thats another thread. Edited October 8, 2018 by Born Hunter 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ChrisJones 7,973 Posted October 8, 2018 Report Share Posted October 8, 2018 9 minutes ago, Blackbriar said: very few of us (thankfully) will ever find ourselves in such a position, so we can't possibly know what we might or might not do. I agree with you BB but this is now a hypothetical training exercise for some of us based on the outcome of this act of terrorism. This isn't trying to sound cloak and dagger but working in an industry and a city where a similar kind of event can unfold without warning it's an attempt to look at what wasn't done and attempt to remedy it for the future. There are LE and civilian security agencies that will be analysing the chief's statement to change procedure in the future. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
neil82 1,008 Posted October 8, 2018 Report Share Posted October 8, 2018 sat in a car with no baton or pepper spray, unarmed, f/koff, sure the pen pushing twat had something that could have been used, AND, don`t forget he was too bloody self-important to drive himself so there was the driver as well, all of a sudden there are 2 coppers who could/should have done something not just the fat twat sat in the back seat 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ollieollie 766 Posted October 8, 2018 Report Share Posted October 8, 2018 He’s still a copper, should have been out there! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
scothunter 12,609 Posted October 8, 2018 Report Share Posted October 8, 2018 Exactly there always telling us they are in the front line and deserve more recognition and money and tougher sentence on anyone attacking or killing a police officer. Serve and protect is there motto is it not. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ChrisJones 7,973 Posted October 8, 2018 Report Share Posted October 8, 2018 13 minutes ago, scothunter said: Serve and protect is there motto is it not. They changed it from "Working For A Safer London" to "Working Together For A Safer London" for the measly sum of ten grand... So many things so little time... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The one 8,397 Posted October 8, 2018 Report Share Posted October 8, 2018 Typical manager locking himself in and send in the workers Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Meece 1,957 Posted October 8, 2018 Report Share Posted October 8, 2018 1 hour ago, neil82 said: sat in a car with no baton or pepper spray, unarmed, f/koff, sure the pen pushing twat had something that could have been used, AND, don`t forget he was too bloody self-important to drive himself so there was the driver as well, all of a sudden there are 2 coppers who could/should have done something not just the fat twat sat in the back seat At the battle of Trafalgar, admiral lord Nelson sent a message to the fleet that ENGLAND EXPECTS EVERY MAN TO DO HIS DUTY. This relates just as much now as it did then. These specimens are total cowards. Spineless. Why should he have a chauffeur and another officer hasn't he got arms and legs to drive himself. I suppose that he thinks himself to important. What did he get all those medal ribbons for? Hiding round the back of the bike shed. Still no doubt he's one of the handshaker brigade. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bird 9,594 Posted October 8, 2018 Report Share Posted October 8, 2018 5 hours ago, riohog said: could have launched the car at him instead of just sitting there , ,see he got a bunch of medal ribbons on his uniform , were they for playing chess , and snakes and ladders// 100% mate, should ran the car into him and bust him up, you never know it might have saved the other coppers life who got stabbed . he had no gun or stab jackets , and the others were the same, ok so he should have used the car as a weapon and stopped the attack . 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sussex 5,776 Posted October 9, 2018 Report Share Posted October 9, 2018 Every senior officer who was in on the decision to have an UNARMED Pc on the front gate of the No1 terrorist target in the UK should be dismissed for gross negligence, they to a man or woman have the blood of this Pc on there hands ..including this senior career officer who was clearly never tested to lead from the front ... 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
greg64 2,562 Posted October 9, 2018 Report Share Posted October 9, 2018 14 hours ago, ChrisJones said: I read this one a little earlier and I'm of mixed opinions. He was unarmed. Had no body armour and was in a vehicle with two unarmed and untrained people. On the flip side, we're always told that we're not capable of doing these things ourselves because that's the domain of the police. Had he intervened he realistically could have been fatally wounded. As he didn't his conduct is under suspicion because he didn't do anything. he sat in that locked car knowing the pc on the gate was unarmed and watched it unfold, the pc could of ran off but he stood his ground and paid the ultimate price ,lions led by donkeys springs to mind 1 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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