cattle dog and kelpie x ?

[Neal 1,787]

MagyarAgar, I think you're right about the Australian Shepherd. I've heard that it's actually an American breed descended from Iberian dogs. Apparently the name Australian Shepherd simply comes from the fact that it has a bobbed tail like the Australian Stumpy tailed Cattle dog (like a heeler but with no tail) and the Smithfield (which is now also used in Australia).

[wild rover 548]

I'm affraid not mate,the acd bitch wasn't mine and i found a new home(polo pony stables in the new forest,with 2 other acd's) for her after the pups left.Might take me some time to find another but great things come to those that wait

 

Hi fireman,

 

do you know other acd x breeders beside you?

And by the way do you know Simon Dixon?

He is mentioned in the Coney Catcher 3 video as a ACD x Breeder.

 

 

Magyar Agar

Hello mate, I know Simon hes a good friend, my stock is some of the last remaining ones bred from his line, i had one of the originals bred in 93, he no longer has lurchers, he field trials spaniels and trains all types of gundogs.

WAS SIMON DIXON THE GUY THAT BRED FROM HIS BLUE ACD DOG.HAD A BLUE& WHITE HANCOCK 5/8 3/8 WHEN I MET HIM AT THE DONCASTER & DISTRICT SHOW BOUT 92?? NICE GUY THAT WAS IN2 LURCHER TRAINING??

Indeed he was, and yes he did have a hancock but not for long, I was with him at the Donnie show, it was from his blue ACD that Kevin Walkers posum was bred, Phil Lloyd had a pup, another local mate had one and I had the only Black/Blue speckle in the litter, all the litter made decent workers, my black dog worked and hunted all day long.

Simon produced a few litters and friends down the country got a couple, all worked well by experienced lurcher lads,I have never heard anyone who got one say they were poor workers.

I have currently a nearly 9 year old black.blue/red speckle decendant of the first litter, been a good servant, day and night,also have a 21 inch ACD/GREY/WHIP bred from working blue ACD X GREY/WHIP.Simon now field trials springers and trains all types of gundogs, very successfully. Cheers

I WOULD NEVER COMMENT ON ANY MANS DOGS ABILITY THAT I HAD NEVER PERSONALLY SEEN WILDROVER & IF UR DOGS SUIT U THEN THATS ALL THAT MATTERS. WHO IS CURRENTLY BREEDING ACD CROSSES NOW THOUGH?

Hiya mate, theres a bit of a mix up, i'm not talking about just the ability of my dogs, I agree with whats suits who, and another mans meat is anothers poison, was just refering to your earlier posts about cattle dogs and the Holmes, maybe ACD not using their noses, etc.

Just making a point for other readers, that ACD crosses do have a decent working ability, nose, feet, bone drive etc, both heeler (for Neal ha )and Kelpie crosses may only suit certain people.

Magyar Agar not sure who still breeds Kelpie and ACD, Dave Sleight used to, and there are a few other odd litters bred now and then, Neal may help there, ACD round here have for easyness been infused with other crosses, not my cup of tea so my old dog is last of line here, but my pup came from Wales.All the best, good reading .WR

[MagyarAgar 88]

Magyar Agar not sure who still breeds Kelpie and ACD, Dave Sleight used to, and there are a few other odd litters bred now and then, Neal may help there, ACD round here have for easyness been infused with other crosses, not my cup of tea so my old dog is last of line here, but my pup came from Wales.All the best, good reading .WR

 

Ok thanks so far!

Then we wait for Neal to answer this question

 

Magyar Agar

[stevemac 415]

Australian cattle dog also known as blue or red heller

some line carry long coats most have thick moderate coats

 

Australian stumpy tail cattle dog seperate breed to above.

 

australian Kelpie bred down from smooth collie types

 

boarder collies reconised australian bred because of the part they have played in the australian sheep industry.

working dogs have short coats pets and show dogs long coats.

 

german collie none reconised bred of sheep dog breed down from german dogs.

 

Australian Shepard an american breed developed from non discript sheep dogs that traveled to america with imported marino sheep from Australia.

[Neal 1,787]

I occasionaly see adverts for kelpie lurchers advertised in both EDRD (look at that: I can use caps lock after all )and Countryman's Weekly. Some are mentioned as being in the Rotherham area but not sure if any or all are bred by Dave Sleight. There's also the added problem of whether or not they have any other blood ie in most of Dave Sleight's articles for EDRD he refers to Gem etc as kelpie x racing whippets so anybody using a dog of similar breeding may not realise they also have collie blood. Incidentally, the collie blood used in the original few litters of Dave's was descended from Barry Sharpe's Moss; a big chocolate and white dog which featured in a couple of articles by Daergi in the Shooting News many years ago. I believe Phil Lloyd rated him highly too, praise indeed.

 

I used to be in contact with Dave Sleight a few years ago when I owned one of the kelpie/collie greyhounds from his first litter of the cross but I've not been in touch for several years now, since having to re-home Moss (that's my lurcher: not Barry Sharpe's collie). As Dave advertises his pure kelpie and a kelpie x collie at stud in EDRD I'm sure people must use them so maybe somebody on this forum who's in contact with him could find out more.

 

On the subject of ACD lurchers, once again, I sometimes see adverts for them but not as often as kelpie crosses. I've seen one locally, in Portsmouth, which looked much less chunky than most of the British ACDs and was imported from France but didn't get to chat to the man walking it for long enough to find out any more. He was actually dog-sitting it for a friend over Xmas but it was very friendly and easy going.

 

As for the ACDs agility, I've heard tales of them walking along fences and turning on the spot like a cat. In addition, you've got to be fairly agile to bite a cow's hock and avoid getting kicked!

Edited December 9, 2009 by Neal

[MagyarAgar 88]

Australian cattle dog also known as blue or red heller

some line carry long coats most have thick moderate coats

 

Australian stumpy tail cattle dog seperate breed to above.

 

australian Kelpie bred down from smooth collie types

 

boarder collies reconised australian bred because of the part they have played in the australian sheep industry.

working dogs have short coats pets and show dogs long coats.

 

german collie none reconised bred of sheep dog breed down from german dogs.

 

Australian Shepard an american breed developed from non discript sheep dogs that traveled to america with imported marino sheep from Australia.

 

Thanks for the clarification!

 

 

I used to be in contact with Dave Sleight a few years ago when I owned one of the kelpie/collie greyhounds from his first litter of the cross but I've not been in touch for several years now, since having to re-home Moss (that's my lurcher: not Barry Sharpe's collie). As Dave advertises his pure kelpie and a kelpie x collie at stud in EDRD I'm sure people must use them so maybe somebody on this forum who's in contact with him could find out more.

 

On the subject of ACD lurchers, once again, I sometimes see adverts for them but not as often as kelpie crosses. I've seen one locally, in Portsmouth, which looked much less chunky than most of the British ACDs and was imported from France but didn't get to chat to the man walking it for long enough to find out any more. He was actually dog-sitting it for a friend over Xmas but it was very friendly and easy going.

 

As for the ACDs agility, I've heard tales of them walking along fences and turning on the spot like a cat. In addition, you've got to be fairly agile to bite a cow's hock and avoid getting kicked!

 

So am i right in my assumption that Dave Sleight is the man to get in touch with, for a decent/good kelpie cross?

 

 

Magyar Agar

[Endgame 68]

I occasionaly see adverts for kelpie lurchers advertised in both EDRD (look at that: I can use caps lock after all )and Countryman's Weekly. Some are mentioned as being in the Rotherham area but not sure if any or all are bred by Dave Sleight. There's also the added problem of whether or not they have any other blood ie in most of Dave Sleight's articles for EDRD he refers to Gem etc as kelpie x racing whippets so anybody using a dog of similar breeding may not realise they also have collie blood. Incidentally, the collie blood used in the original few litters of Dave's was descended from Barry Sharpe's Moss; a big chocolate and white dog which featured in a couple of articles by Daergi in the Shooting News many years ago. I believe Phil Lloyd rated him highly too, praise indeed.

 

I used to be in contact with Dave Sleight a few years ago when I owned one of the kelpie/collie greyhounds from his first litter of the cross but I've not been in touch for several years now, since having to re-home Moss (that's my lurcher: not Barry Sharpe's collie). As Dave advertises his pure kelpie and a kelpie x collie at stud in EDRD I'm sure people must use them so maybe somebody on this forum who's in contact with him could find out more.

 

On the subject of ACD lurchers, once again, I sometimes see adverts for them but not as often as kelpie crosses. I've seen one locally, in Portsmouth, which looked much less chunky than most of the British ACDs and was imported from France but didn't get to chat to the man walking it for long enough to find out any more. He was actually dog-sitting it for a friend over Xmas but it was very friendly and easy going.

 

As for the ACDs agility, I've heard tales of them walking along fences and turning on the spot like a cat. In addition, you've got to be fairly agile to bite a cow's hock and avoid getting kicked!

NEAL WAS BARRY SHARPES MOSS RELATED 2 HANCOCKS STUD DOG RUFUS THE RED MATE?

[Neal 1,787]

Yes, that's the one! I have some old ring-binder files full of old articles from Shooting News and there were a couple about Moss by Daergi. If my memory serves me well they were written in response to a Plummer article about Rufus. You know, the usual thing; an article by Plummer followed by an answering letter or article along the lines of, "actually, I think you'll find you're wrong because..." Dave Sleight was particularly good at these.

[Endgame 68]

Yes, that's the one! I have some old ring-binder files full of old articles from Shooting News and there were a couple about Moss by Daergi. If my memory serves me well they were written in response to a Plummer article about Rufus. You know, the usual thing; an article by Plummer followed by an answering letter or article along the lines of, "actually, I think you'll find you're wrong because..." Dave Sleight was particularly good at these.

NEAL UR A LUCKY MAN. I HAD SHOOTING NEWS,s RIGHT BACK 2 1986 BUT WERE CHUCKED OUT BY ACCIDENT WHEN I MOVED HOUSE. I BELIEVE PHIL LIOYD WAS ALSO MEANT 2 GET A PUP FM RUFUS THE REDS LITTER.THE DOG MOSS I REMEMBER WAS HIGHLY RATED. DO U KNOW IF HANCOCK STILL BREEDS FM RUFUS,s BLOODLINE MATE?

[stevemac 415]

THANKS FIREMAN & I HOPE U GET WHAT U WANT.THERE ARE FAR 2 MANY SLIP LEAD DOGS & NOT ENOUGH PEOPLE CAPABLE OF TRAINING A TRADITIONAL WORKING LURCHER THESE DAYS. THE ACD WAS RECOGNISED AS A BREED IN AUSTRALIA IN 1903,THE BREED STANDARD WAS DRAWN UP BY ROBERT KALESKI IN 1897. KALESKI WROTE THE BOOK, BARKERS & BITERS, IN WHICH HE STATED ON ACD,s "THEY DO NOT WANT TO GO HUNTING AT ALL.". JOHN & MARY HOLMES IN THEIR BOOK/ THE COMPLETE AUSTRALIAN CATTLE / STATED THAT HAD THEY NOT OWNED ACD,s THEY WOULD NOT HAVE BELIEVED THIS & STATE THEY "HAVE NEVER OWNED(an ACD)THAT WAS A TRUE HUNTER. FINDING THAT FM EXPERIENCE & FM OTHERS THAT ACD,s HAD A NATURAL TENDENCY 2 STAY WITH THEIR OWNER INSTEAD. THIS I CERTAINLY FOUND THE CASE IN MY EXPERIENCE. HOWEVER FIREMAN IT MAY BE THE ADDITION OF SIGHTHOUND BLOOD IGNITES THE HUNTING INSTINCT?? THERE ARE ALWAYS EXCEPTIONS 2 ANY RULE. ANYWAY FIREMAN, AFTER TALKING ABOUT MY LOVE OF A TRADITIONAL LURCHER,IAM AWAY 2 GO SLIPLEAD HUNTING WIF MY LAMP(HYPOCRITE OR [bANNED TEXT]?) GOOD LUCK IN UR SEARCH FIREMAN.

 

Engame I find this to be a very interesting coment and one that may have been made by someone that was use to hounds. As the opersite has been my experance in both a working and hunting capacities, as a young man i spent many a day on horse back retrieving semi wild cattle from the bulahdela mounting ranges. Without the natural hunting ability of the cattle dogs many bullocks and steers would have been missed as they hid in the lantana and tea tree chocked gullies and valleys of these mountain ranges. It was common to be able to sit at the bottom of the places and cast the dogs with the command "go way back" The dogs would make their way to the head of the gully then hunt the cattle back to us using that famous cattle dog bit to move even the most stubborn of bullocks.

 

Later on in life I renewed a friendship from years earlier my mate Brett kept australian cattle dogs and used them to hunt hare , fox and rabbit weather hunting with a shot gun over his dogs or running them with my dogs we acounted for many many hares ,fox and rabbit as well as the odd wallaby or two. Bretts dogs due to the work he gave them or the type he kept were never the stout type but were up on their legs and fit as a fiddle. He did not work them on cattle but the pups he breed were well sort after by men who still run cattle on the rangers.

 

Unfortunately those days are gone and brett has past on, but I have my memories of all those great days in the feild.

 

Stevemac

[Neal 1,787]

Wow Stevemac; amazing memories of interesting times!

 

Endgame, I started buying the Shooting News when I was at Art College in Falmouth. It reached the stage where if I was looking for a particular article it would take hours sifting through them all so I spent hours instead going through the whole lot and cutting out the articles I wanted and putting them in a ring-binder. Needless to say I rarely need to save any nowadays whereas I always keep the whole of EDRD.

 

I don't know whether or not Hancock still keeps that bloodline, I think he has some pedigrees on his website so you may get more information from there.

Edited December 10, 2009 by Neal

[Sorley x 32]

Yes, that's the one! I have some old ring-binder files full of old articles from Shooting News and there were a couple about Moss by Daergi. If my memory serves me well they were written in response to a Plummer article about Rufus. You know, the usual thing; an article by Plummer followed by an answering letter or article along the lines of, "actually, I think you'll find you're wrong because..." Dave Sleight was particularly good at these.

 

Don't suppose anyone has got any copies of these????

[MagyarAgar 88]

Engame I find this to be a very interesting coment and one that may have been made by someone that was use to hounds. As the opersite has been my experance in both a working and hunting capacities, as a young man i spent many a day on horse back retrieving semi wild cattle from the bulahdela mounting ranges. Without the natural hunting ability of the cattle dogs many bullocks and steers would have been missed as they hid in the lantana and tea tree chocked gullies and valleys of these mountain ranges. It was common to be able to sit at the bottom of the places and cast the dogs with the command "go way back" The dogs would make their way to the head of the gully then hunt the cattle back to us using that famous cattle dog bit to move even the most stubborn of bullocks.

 

Later on in life I renewed a friendship from years earlier my mate Brett kept australian cattle dogs and used them to hunt hare , fox and rabbit weather hunting with a shot gun over his dogs or running them with my dogs we acounted for many many hares ,fox and rabbit as well as the odd wallaby or two. Bretts dogs due to the work he gave them or the type he kept were never the stout type but were up on their legs and fit as a fiddle. He did not work them on cattle but the pups he breed were well sort after by men who still run cattle on the rangers.

 

Unfortunately those days are gone and brett has past on, but I have my memories of all those great days in the feild.

 

Stevemac

 

Thank You for sharing these interesting memories!

 

 

 

Chalkwarren do you own a Kelpie or ACD cross right now?

[comanche 2,799]

All this talk of ACd ,heelers or whatever made me dig out a few photos .

They go back a few years .

The cattle dog cross came from a guy in South Godstone Surrey and I always wondered what happened to the rest of the litter as I did'nt see any around and people had a tendency to come up to me at shows and seemed surprised that I still had my bitch ,let alone seemed quite attached to her , as if they knew something I did'nt about the bloodline .

I have to say she was the most intelligent ,versatile ,obedient and affectionate dog I've ever owned . She thrived on work and obedience training ..but a few of her off-duty antics made me suspect that some of her ancestors might have spent time herding cattle in the Botany Bay area!

 

As some one once said to me, "F*** me "Comanche" . Only a weirdo like you could live with a dog like that for so long and still love it !".

 

cattledog pup.bmpcattle dog molly.bmpcattle dog jumping on shed.bmpcattle dog fen molly kelly.bmp

 

So while there are people on here with a bit more knowledge about the breed in this country does anyone remember or did they have a pup from a litter from S Godstone Surrey area ..maybe 15+ years ago? Notes could be compared !.

[wild rover 548]

All this talk of ACd ,heelers or whatever made me dig out a few photos .

They go back a few years .

The cattle dog cross came from a guy in South Godstone Surrey and I always wondered what happened to the rest of the litter as I did'nt see any around and people had a tendency to come up to me at shows and seemed surprised that I still had my bitch ,let alone seemed quite attached to her , as if they knew something I did'nt about the bloodline .

I have to say she was the most intelligent ,versatile ,obedient and affectionate dog I've ever owned . She thrived on work and obedience training ..but a few of her off-duty antics made me suspect that some of her ancestors might have spent time herding cattle in the Botany Bay area!

 

As some one once said to me, "F*** me "Comanche" . Only a weirdo like you could live with a dog like that for so long and still love it !".

 

cattledog pup.bmpcattle dog molly.bmpcattle dog jumping on shed.bmpcattle dog fen molly kelly.bmp

 

So while there are people on here with a bit more knowledge about the breed in this country does anyone remember or did they have a pup from a litter from S Godstone Surrey area ..maybe 15+ years ago? Notes could be compared !.

 

Hello Mate,i havent heard about this litter, I have had ACD's since 93, bred in Cumbria, the original litter went local, and one to Phil Lloyd and one to Kevin Walker in the north east. Still have ACD's, a 9 in Jan dog and a 2 year old, ACD/GREY/WHIP, be good to hear your experiences etc. All the best. WR