cattle dog and kelpie x ?

[Endgame 68]

Good questions to ask Endgame,the litter i raised as i've said before came from a rescued acd,she was brought back to health by a mate and used to join us out mooching about.During this time she showed us some traits that we liked,she'd bush like a terrier,used her nose well and never ever tierd,she was so loyal and went out of her way to please us.She wasn't over guarding but wouldn't ever let a strange dog get between us and her,totaly steady with my kids,easly house trained for a 2 year old dog and after a lot of resaerch from other people who have owned this cross before she was mated to produce a lurcher litter.The pups had the best feet i have ever seen on any running dog ever and if you look at the pics of my bitch they had legs like cricket stumps and it was a great shock to all who knew her that she broke a leg as badly as she did.So to answer a bit of your question i'd say the acdx offers better bone than a lot of collie's,as much brain as a collie can offer,as much if not a little more stamina and drive,loyalty as good as i've seen in any breed x or not and as i say a almost over powering urge to please you and make sure your happy with them.This may seem a funny thing to say but you have to see it to belive it,so on this note i myself have to give this x another chance,i might get a duffer next time or i might get a dog as good as the last one but if i never try i'll never know and i myself feel it's worth the risk waiting for this x again as the last was all i've ever wanted in any dog of any type.As for the what can the x offer next time round in breeding then i'm affaid your'll have to watch this space as the dog caterpiller had is being put to the test and if he comes up good then in the future he may be bred from and if you read one of his reply's your'll read he's doing ok for a young un in his first year and is doing as much as any collie x or any other x could.

Magyar Agar i don't know any acdx breeders i'm affraid,i never bred that litter i just reared them for a pal but if i did i'd be showing you all my new pup lol.

FIREMAN I WISH U ALL THE BEST [bANNED TEXT] & I HOPE UGET AS GOOD A DOG NEXT TIME & I MEAN THAT. THEY CERTAINLY HAVE GOOD BONE [bANNED TEXT] & AS FAR AS LOYALTY GOES I HAVE NEVER ENCOUNTERED ANY DOG WITH SUCH LOYALTY.WHEN I WAS GOING OUT & LEAVING HER PIP USED 2 WRAP HER FRONT LEGS ROUND MY LEG WANTING 2 STAY WITH ME.NEVER SEEN ANYTHING LIKE IT.I,D ALWAYS REGRETTED NOT GOING 4 A PUP FM PHIL LIOYDS SPECKLE WHEN PUT 2 THE HARDBLOOD WHIPPET, COUNTRY MUSIC.HOPE U GET WHAT UR LOOKING 4 FIREMAN.HOWEVER IM GONNA LEAVE U WITH A QUESTION AS 2 BONE IN A LURCHER,REGARDING EQUAL & OPPOSITE FORCE? WHAT IS LESS LIKELY 2 ESCAPE INJURY?A LIGHT BONED OR HEAVY BONED DOG HITTING A SOLID OBSTACLE(SAY A FENCE POST)? WOULD A LIGHT BONED DOG BOUNCE OFF IT OR SUSTAIN INJURY,OR WOULD A SOLID BONE TAKE THE IMPACT OR SUFFER MORE TRAUMA/DUE 2 BEING HEAVIER? THE QUESTION IS 1 OF PHYSICS/RELATIVITY & THE COMING TOGETHER OF AN EQUAL OR OPPOSITE FORCE? SOMEONE ONCE POINTED OUT 2 ME THAT HAD I EVER SEEN A HEAVY BONED DEER OR RABBIT,WHICH ARE BOTH EVOLVED 2 NEGOTIATE OBSTACLES LIKE FALLEN TREE TRUNKS IN A WOODLAND ENVIROMENT? AS FAR AS FEET GO ID IMAGINE THEY WOULD HAVE EXCELLENT FEET.PLEASE DONT TAKE THIS AS AN ARGUMENT FIREMAN,AS A LITTLE SENSIBLE DEBATE NEVER HARMED [NO TEXT TALK] MATE.PS/AS REGARDS THE PREFERENCE 2 LIGHT V HEAVY BONE/I DONT HAVE THE ANSWER EITHER MATE AS IVE SEEN DOGS THAT COULD BACK UP BOTH SIDES OF THE ARGUMENT.

Edited December 8, 2009 by Endgame

[Neal 1,787]

Magyar Agar, Karana Krypto is still alive I believe and now lives in Ireland. I think he was originally imported to the UK by the Woolstone Stud. I think I'm right in thinking that the kelpies owned by Mike and D.C. on here were sired by him and I believe Dave Sleight's pure kelpie is a Woolstone dog but I don't know whether or not he's sired by Krypto. He later moved to Ireland but I don't know what's become of him since then. I can do a bit of searching, if you like, to try to find out. The Woolstone Stud, replaced him with Okara Max which is the dog on the video clip earlier in this thread and sire of the dog mentioned in Sheamus' earlier post. However, the Woolstone Stud have now gone to Australia so Max has moved to Kevin Reeves' Lyndhurst Stud. We're quite lucky that most of the main kelpie studs in the UK are regularly importing new blood and also trying to ensure it's as unrelated as possible to the currect bloodlines available.

[fireman 10,774]

Good point there with the bone bit mate and i agree with you on a sencible debate not doing any harm ,i myself do a lot of bushing/moochig about and only a couple of weeks ago watched my better halves lurcher hit a tree at full speed and i must admite my heart sank and i said to the lads with me"not a again "but she got up although it was the end of the night with her she is up and running again now.Now if it was a heavier dog the impact could of been a lot worse and it was imo due to her being a light weight lurcher that she is still here but i myself do like a bit of bone in a bushing/mooching lurcher due to the way i do most of my hunting as i find they can and do take the smaller knocks a lot better than a lighter boned dog.The knock the lurcher took has put her off hitting hedges day or night but have seen heavier boned dogs not put off by doing the same,i'd say it's a difficult one to call on which is best and it's really down to personal choice mate at the end of the day what suits you.I will add that when i chose to keep one of the acdx pups i was due to move to west wales and the terrain there and the game that was to be hunted there was a major factor in me choosing to keep one,hard going so i needed a hard going dog.Fact is i'm still living in hare ridden land but would still prefer a dog like i had than a big land runner that i could knacker out on old big ears within a few feilds of my house.Thanks also Endgame for the best wishes as far as getting a new dog goes .

[Endgame 68]

HERES A QUESTION 4 ALL U BUDDING ACD AFFICIADOS.WHAT IS THE MAIN HEREDITARY DEFECT THAT ACD,S SUFFER FROM & WHY???

 

It is the MDR1 Gen defect. Causes a changed sensibility to some drugs. It most probably derived from an only ancestor of various breeds that was a collie.

 

 

In fact, out of my three, although the first two are great workers, they don't have as keen a prey drive as Scout who's a grand-daughter of Krypto.

 

Can u tell me someone who is breeding of this line?

 

 

Magyar Agar i don't know any acdx breeders i'm affraid,i never bred that litter i just reared them for a pal but if i did i'd be showing you all my new pup lol.

 

Ok thanks for your answer!

 

 

Magyar Agar

AUSTRALIAN CATTLE DOGS ARE ACTUALLY WHITE WHEN BORN(A FACT THAT SUPRISED ME) & SOME SUFFER DEAFNESS.OFTEN PEOPLE PUT THIS DOWN 2 THE DALMATION BLOOD SUPPOSEDLY USED IN THE CREATION OF THE BREED. THE ACD PUP IS THEREFORE GIVEN WHAT IS KNOWN AS A B.A.E.R TEST AROUND 5WKS 2 TEST 4 DEAFNESS(BRAINSTERN AUDITORY EVOKED RESPONSE test)

[MagyarAgar 88]

... I can do a bit of searching, if you like, to try to find out...

 

Thank You, that would be nice. Im very interested in lurchers with australian blood in them

 

 

AUSTRALIAN CATTLE DOGS ARE ACTUALLY WHITE WHEN BORN(A FACT THAT SUPRISED ME) & SOME SUFFER DEAFNESS.OFTEN PEOPLE PUT THIS DOWN 2 THE DALMATION BLOOD SUPPOSEDLY USED IN THE CREATION OF THE BREED. THE ACD PUP IS THEREFORE GIVEN WHAT IS KNOWN AS A B.A.E.R TEST AROUND 5WKS 2 TEST 4 DEAFNESS(BRAINSTERN AUDITORY EVOKED RESPONSE test)

 

Most first cross lurcher are a maximum in heterogeneity, so i think it is not often that a lurcher suffers from Deafness

 

 

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Did anyone of ever heared of a ( Kelpie x ACD ) x Greyhound? And if yes are there any pictures or videos of them?

 

 

Magyar Agar

[Endgame 68]

THANKS FIREMAN & I HOPE U GET WHAT U WANT.THERE ARE FAR 2 MANY SLIP LEAD DOGS & NOT ENOUGH PEOPLE CAPABLE OF TRAINING A TRADITIONAL WORKING LURCHER THESE DAYS. THE ACD WAS RECOGNISED AS A BREED IN AUSTRALIA IN 1903,THE BREED STANDARD WAS DRAWN UP BY ROBERT KALESKI IN 1897. KALESKI WROTE THE BOOK, BARKERS & BITERS, IN WHICH HE STATED ON ACD,s "THEY DO NOT WANT TO GO HUNTING AT ALL.". JOHN & MARY HOLMES IN THEIR BOOK/ THE COMPLETE AUSTRALIAN CATTLE / STATED THAT HAD THEY NOT OWNED ACD,s THEY WOULD NOT HAVE BELIEVED THIS & STATE THEY "HAVE NEVER OWNED(an ACD)THAT WAS A TRUE HUNTER. FINDING THAT FM EXPERIENCE & FM OTHERS THAT ACD,s HAD A NATURAL TENDENCY 2 STAY WITH THEIR OWNER INSTEAD. THIS I CERTAINLY FOUND THE CASE IN MY EXPERIENCE. HOWEVER FIREMAN IT MAY BE THE ADDITION OF SIGHTHOUND BLOOD IGNITES THE HUNTING INSTINCT?? THERE ARE ALWAYS EXCEPTIONS 2 ANY RULE. ANYWAY FIREMAN, AFTER TALKING ABOUT MY LOVE OF A TRADITIONAL LURCHER,IAM AWAY 2 GO SLIPLEAD HUNTING WIF MY LAMP(HYPOCRITE OR [bANNED TEXT]?) GOOD LUCK IN UR SEARCH FIREMAN.

[Endgame 68]

... I can do a bit of searching, if you like, to try to find out...

 

Thank You, that would be nice. Im very interested in lurchers with australian blood in them

 

 

AUSTRALIAN CATTLE DOGS ARE ACTUALLY WHITE WHEN BORN(A FACT THAT SUPRISED ME) & SOME SUFFER DEAFNESS.OFTEN PEOPLE PUT THIS DOWN 2 THE DALMATION BLOOD SUPPOSEDLY USED IN THE CREATION OF THE BREED. THE ACD PUP IS THEREFORE GIVEN WHAT IS KNOWN AS A B.A.E.R TEST AROUND 5WKS 2 TEST 4 DEAFNESS(BRAINSTERN AUDITORY EVOKED RESPONSE test)

 

Most first cross lurcher are a maximum in heterogeneity, so i think it is not often that a lurcher suffers from Deafness

 

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Did anyone of ever heared of a ( Kelpie x ACD ) x Greyhound? And if yes are there any pictures or videos of them?

 

 

Magyar Agar

MAGYAR AGAR YOU ARE CORRECT,BUT I WAS TALKING ABOUT PUREBRED ACD,s. HOWEVER I HAVE SEEN DEAFNESS IN LURCHERS WHEN 2 BLUE MERLES WERE MATED TOGETHER BY A LUNATIC THAT I KNEW.

[MagyarAgar 88]

MAGYAR AGAR YOU ARE CORRECT,BUT I WAS TALKING ABOUT PUREBRED ACD,s. HOWEVER I HAVE SEEN DEAFNESS IN LURCHERS WHEN 2 BLUE MERLES WERE MATED TOGETHER BY A LUNATIC THAT I KNEW.

 

Ok Endgame then I missunderstood that!

 

Magyar Agar

[jigsaw 11,809]

Neal I believe krypto is based in Kerry now and the owner sells the odd litter of pure kelpies every now and again.

Edited December 8, 2009 by jigsaw

[MIKE 18]

You are right about Krypto being the sire to mine and D.C.'s Kelpie Neal nut I beleive that Sleighty's dog is from another bloodline, I have two half cross Kelpie/Grey's out of this line of kelpie (my Ruby being the litter sister to D.C.'s dog )and am very pleased with what I have, they suite my needs, I wouldn't get into the my cross is better than your cross argument with collie crosses but all I will say is they ARE different

[Endgame 68]

MAGYAR AGAR YOU ARE CORRECT,BUT I WAS TALKING ABOUT PUREBRED ACD,s. HOWEVER I HAVE SEEN DEAFNESS IN LURCHERS WHEN 2 BLUE MERLES WERE MATED TOGETHER BY A LUNATIC THAT I KNEW.

 

Ok Endgame then I missunderstood that!

 

Magyar Agar

UR INTERESTED IN AUSTRALIAN HERDING DOGS MAGYAR?I REMEMBER READING IN DOGS MONTHLY YEARS AGO ABOUT IMPORTING AUSTRALIAN SHEEPOGS IN2 THE UK? THEY SEEMED SIMILAR 2 A BORDER COLLIE. DONT KNOW IF THEY EVER TOOK OFF OVER HERE?

[wild rover 548]

I'm affraid not mate,the acd bitch wasn't mine and i found a new home(polo pony stables in the new forest,with 2 other acd's) for her after the pups left.Might take me some time to find another but great things come to those that wait

 

Hi fireman,

 

do you know other acd x breeders beside you?

And by the way do you know Simon Dixon?

He is mentioned in the Coney Catcher 3 video as a ACD x Breeder.

 

 

Magyar Agar

Hello mate, I know Simon hes a good friend, my stock is some of the last remaining ones bred from his line, i had one of the originals bred in 93, he no longer has lurchers, he field trials spaniels and trains all types of gundogs.

WAS SIMON DIXON THE GUY THAT BRED FROM HIS BLUE ACD DOG.HAD A BLUE& WHITE HANCOCK 5/8 3/8 WHEN I MET HIM AT THE DONCASTER & DISTRICT SHOW BOUT 92?? NICE GUY THAT WAS IN2 LURCHER TRAINING??

Indeed he was, and yes he did have a hancock but not for long, I was with him at the Donnie show, it was from his blue ACD that Kevin Walkers posum was bred, Phil Lloyd had a pup, another local mate had one and I had the only Black/Blue speckle in the litter, all the litter made decent workers, my black dog worked and hunted all day long.

Simon produced a few litters and friends down the country got a couple, all worked well by experienced lurcher lads,I have never heard anyone who got one say they were poor workers.

I have currently a nearly 9 year old black.blue/red speckle decendant of the first litter, been a good servant, day and night,also have a 21 inch ACD/GREY/WHIP bred from working blue ACD X GREY/WHIP.Simon now field trials springers and trains all types of gundogs, very successfully. Cheers

[Endgame 68]

I'm affraid not mate,the acd bitch wasn't mine and i found a new home(polo pony stables in the new forest,with 2 other acd's) for her after the pups left.Might take me some time to find another but great things come to those that wait

 

Hi fireman,

 

do you know other acd x breeders beside you?

And by the way do you know Simon Dixon?

He is mentioned in the Coney Catcher 3 video as a ACD x Breeder.

 

 

Magyar Agar

Hello mate, I know Simon hes a good friend, my stock is some of the last remaining ones bred from his line, i had one of the originals bred in 93, he no longer has lurchers, he field trials spaniels and trains all types of gundogs.

WAS SIMON DIXON THE GUY THAT BRED FROM HIS BLUE ACD DOG.HAD A BLUE& WHITE HANCOCK 5/8 3/8 WHEN I MET HIM AT THE DONCASTER & DISTRICT SHOW BOUT 92?? NICE GUY THAT WAS IN2 LURCHER TRAINING??

Indeed he was, and yes he did have a hancock but not for long, I was with him at the Donnie show, it was from his blue ACD that Kevin Walkers posum was bred, Phil Lloyd had a pup, another local mate had one and I had the only Black/Blue speckle in the litter, all the litter made decent workers, my black dog worked and hunted all day long.

Simon produced a few litters and friends down the country got a couple, all worked well by experienced lurcher lads,I have never heard anyone who got one say they were poor workers.

I have currently a nearly 9 year old black.blue/red speckle decendant of the first litter, been a good servant, day and night,also have a 21 inch ACD/GREY/WHIP bred from working blue ACD X GREY/WHIP.Simon now field trials springers and trains all types of gundogs, very successfully. Cheers

I WOULD NEVER COMMENT ON ANY MANS DOGS ABILITY THAT I HAD NEVER PERSONALLY SEEN WILDROVER & IF UR DOGS SUIT U THEN THATS ALL THAT MATTERS. WHO IS CURRENTLY BREEDING ACD CROSSES NOW THOUGH?

[MagyarAgar 88]

UR INTERESTED IN AUSTRALIAN HERDING DOGS MAGYAR?I REMEMBER READING IN DOGS MONTHLY YEARS AGO ABOUT IMPORTING AUSTRALIAN SHEEPOGS IN2 THE UK? THEY SEEMED SIMILAR 2 A BORDER COLLIE. DONT KNOW IF THEY EVER TOOK OFF OVER HERE?

 

Yes im really interested in the Australian Breeds but more interested in the lurcher offspring of them!!

I dont live in the UK so i cant say if there were any Australian Sheepdogs imported. But I tink the Australian Sheepdog is not a Australian Dog. Maybe his ancestors were from Australia but now they are a breed of the USA i think.

 

 

The answer to ENDGAMEs last question is interesting me too. Who is breeding ACD x or Kelpie x now?

[Neal 1,787]

Thanks Mike, I was fairly certain that Dave Sleight's "Wizard of Oz" was from a different line but wasn't certain.

 

I completely agree with your comment re kelpies and collies, and also the same with regards to heelers. ie I prefer kelpies after owning several different collie crosses (beardie and border) as well as a kelpie/collie x greyhound but I definitely wouldn't say they're better; just different.

 

I've always been a big fan of collies and collie crosses but I simply found that I gelled better with kelpies. In a similar vein, I've always liked heelers since reading an article about them about twenty or so years ago in the Running Dog magazine but wouldn't get one now simply because although I might get on well with them I don't want to run the risk as I've found something I definitely do get on with. Incidentally, the reason I call them heelers rather than ACDs is not because I'm tring to be trendy; it's just because it's easier to type as I don't have to put caps lock on.