Jump to content

Recommended Posts

Early Kerry Blue Litter in the 20's.jpg

Same litter would be split into Kerry Blue, Wheaton and Irish, the B&T could pass as Irish back then. The RED coat came later.

Irish Terrier  B&T 1910.jpg

Irish Terrier 1910

KBT-1916.jpg

KBT Trialled 1960.jpg

Kerry Blue/ Wheaton were trialled up to the 60's. and some later but the working numbers were not being produced.

The Staffs became the dog of choice. (Love the way the staff in the centre is waiting his chance to cling that Kerry Blue.)

  • Like 8
Link to post

  • Replies 155
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

That old Bucks Otter Hounds print is one of my absolute favourite otter hunting prints. They were originally produced as a fund raiser for the B.O.H. and if my memory serves me right were at that time

White terriers of old       Kilkenny, Ireland 1908        

Posted Images

13 minutes ago, p3d said:

Early Kerry Blue Litter in the 20's.jpg

Same litter would be split into Kerry Blue, Wheaton and Irish, the B&T could pass as Irish back then. The RED coat came later.

Irish Terrier  B&T 1910.jpg

Irish Terrier 1910

KBT-1916.jpg

KBT Trialled 1960.jpg

Kerry Blue/ Wheaton were trialled up to the 60's. and some later but the working numbers were not being produced.

The Staffs became the dog of choice. (Love the way the staff in the centre is waiting his chance to cling that Kerry Blue.)

Never saw those first 3 pics before p3d, by the looks of them you could see how the Irish terrier and Kerry Blue may well have played their part in the creation of the Lakeland/Fell/Patterdale..

  • Like 3
Link to post

KS

Go back that far and they were basically all from the same pot.

 

1906 photo of Tommy Dobson i don't recall seeing before, with a broken terrier to the right.jpg

1906 Tommy Dobson with a White terrier (Marking on head and tail stem, where have we seen that before)

apt 01.jpg

  • Like 4
Link to post

935849215_Dobsonin1892withhisyoungproteg.jpg.b51a712ef6d1ac1324f4bdfe67f2f011.jpg1387014673_Tommy(2ndfromright)withhisEskdalePack.jpg.7bc7ce0ecf3cd71a3fbe4ae4778a8b44.jpg

TommyDobson_1053.jpg.3b9ca907a84b63cea01905f7a8a2639b.jpg1214203487_TommyDobson-DandieLakeyRussell.jpg.991771227eca76931625fef6d6b4f72d.jpg

From 1892 to his death Tommy had a mixture of all types of terriers. White, Border/ lakey types, smooth/Rough.

Like any huntsman, Good working terriers are hard to come by, back then and now. Use what works.

  • Like 9
Link to post
35 minutes ago, Rabbit Hunter said:

P3D, what year (roughly) do you think the first black terriers, as we know them today, appeared?

RH,

You can find photos of smooth black terriers back 100 years, but there is no mention of a line of smooth coated dogs as we see them today before the 70's

Hugh-Lowther-with-dogs-Carlton-House-Terrace1.jpg.82d5a4e8d36024ffa63b00365cd55cc8.jpg

All of the photographs of working terriers appeared to be Fell/Lakey/Border type (Red, B&T, Black, White) or Russell/Fox/Sealyham type. (White with hound type markings).

The hunting writers of the time (pre 60's) mention every line and type, but I have never seen any mention of a smooth coloured line of working terriers.

Dogs like Smithy and Nigger seem to have come along and were bred to hundreds of bitches, then the black smooth line took off. 1970?

I have in front of me a list of terriers entered in a working trial in the 80's in Cork Ireland, there are all of the working types you could think of, but no patterdale or Smooth black dog. I hunted back then with men who had contacts in the UK. They brought over many types. I never saw a smooth black dog back then. Do you think if there was a line of great smooth black dogs available that they would not have tried them.

Breay and Buck did not breed that line, they outcrossed too often to lock in any defined type. it was someone after them. JMO

841591772_Breay101.png.40d1295d358341004f77625c37785b55.png

Is that dog on the left Smooth enough, compared to the other 4 fell types?

Did the smooth coat come from a dog like this crossed with a fell?

816754355_Breay100.jpg.2987c9dc16f75e0d75ff6e75659e6bfd.jpg

Don't want to go off in a tangent from B'11s post of old photos.

  • Like 1
Link to post

I have posted this before on THL but have always loved the photograph. I find it interesting on several levels. Not least being the quality of the terriers. I have no doubt that they were the Fox Terrier of the day. How could breeders and judges of the present Fox Terrier compare the dogs in this picture with their own and think that they have improved them? To me it beggars belief.

old scanned pic 001.jpg

  • Like 5
  • Thanks 1
Link to post

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Similar Content

    • By TheGrafter
      Alright lads, posting this here to see if anyone has taken a few steps back with a terrier and built things up again.
      what it is, I had dug to my youngest twice at the tail end of last season and he did well for his first digs also had a Reynard on top walking country. They were simple straight forward earths, and he stayed on baying until we were through to him and the Charlie - I was landed, nice to have a steady Bayer in the kennels. 
      I started quite late this season due to work but this week I took him back out to a known spot for his first time out this year.
       I don't 'hiss' or 'hype' my terriers on, allow them to come on in at their own pace into the earth. He shot into this earth, after some searching I heard a few thumps and a whack followed by a few bleeps of baying. Eventually he was a meter away from the point of impact and I could make out his arse from the entrance. Very disorientated and reluctant to push forward I sat and watched on as he'd resurface look for me and head back in to bay 0.5 meter in from the earth entrance. And though some may say I did the wrong thing I pulled him out, though he was keen to go back in - I had a gut feeling.  Slight nick on the ear but no more or near the previous digs/encounters gave him. 
       For his age 3 YO, I've always said in comparison to his siblings he was slightly immature, almost hung onto his puppyish behaviour so progress had always been slow. I'm all for giving opportunities for a terrier to prove their worth but equally don't want a kennel full of half hearted dogs. 
      I'd be interested to see what the more seasoned terrier men thought about the matter? Difficult to say what's what especially with dogs that have little digs under their belt, I have a few assumptions to why this may of happened in my head but thought I'd run it past you lot first, especially before making any hasty decisions. 
      Thank you for reading 👍
       
    • By TheGrafter
      l
    • By Oshea
      Hello lads, merry Christmas and all that. I’ve got a terrier in my kennels that starting to test my patience. 
       
      Great dog, keen as mustard and all that but time and time again I’ve broken through to her steadily baying away only to find she’s sat with something mid tube on one occasion I broke though and there was nothing there however last week I said to myself if I break through I’ll clear the tubes up and pop her back in to make sure it isn’t my fault rather than blame her. Lo and behold it was sat about a meter back from the open end of the tube and eventually bolted itself - Happy says, a nice morning out (I only dig on my own and keep it private).
       
      However today we popped over to seasoned place, in she went, which was an incredibly large earth with multiple holes spanning across a bracken bank. Straight away she sat at 2.4 baying away well, too many entrances to net I kept an eye out for the bolt but nothing was to be seen. For the next hour maybe two she barley surfaced and worked the entire earth sitting and baying on occasion but shortly moving on and covering a great distance. Eventually on one occasion when she popped out, nose down looking for the next way in I picked her up and sat her back in the truck as I didn’t want to be sat there for another hour trying to get a mark. 
       
      my question is simple, what am I doing wrong? Or is the bitch at fault for not working her quarry to a stop end and staying. She isn’t massively experienced however for what’s she’s done I’ve found she’s intelligent and very safe often comes away without a mark. Please don’t recommend PTS or moving her on, I understand many terriermen wouldn’t tolerate this however for the times I have dug to her successfully it has been a great pleasure. I’ve had a conversation with a lad local to me and his response was “she’s not hard enough to hold them” which made me think one man’s preference may not be another’s. 
       
      all the best & happy new year 
    • By TheGrafter
      Morning lads,
      so I’ve always had black fell terriers and work them to ground. But for a few years I’ve noticed people starting work slightly broken coated very short coupled terriers that are little savages. I never really get a clear answer to what’s in them but I really like the look of them.
       
      one chap told me he’d crossed his Sealyham with a Russel and it turned out a good little worker. Just wondering if anyone else has had any experience with this breeding specifically for earth work? 
       
      thanks 

×
×
  • Create New...