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Using A Sire Twice In A Row


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Sorry Corkman, but I don't buy theories figured out in a laboratory.

If dog breeding could be worked out on a piece of paper then we'd all have great dogs and there wouldn't be a wild mammal left in our countryside.

I'd rather listen to the men who's lab is their yard and the testing ground.

 

Like I say, most of us will repeat a mating or two in their yards but in the past there's been lads who done it many times and stopped doing so.

Personally I wouldn't do it but would look to breed the same bitch back to a closely related dog.

It also helps your breeding in the future to do so IMO. It widens your terriers gene pool to do so.

JMHO and that's all it is, an opinion.

 

They're doing interesting things with horses at the minute based on labwork

 

The money that's involved in the Racehorse industry in massive and nearly every little aspect of it is at some time tested in a lab.

But on the subject of repeat matings ?

War Of Attrition won the Cheltenham Gold Cup a few years ago and when his full brother (very same stallion, very same mare) came up for sale the owners of War Of Attrition, Gigginstown Stud, payed good money for him.

Where is he ?

As far as I know he's useless.

It's very common in horse breeding that if you breed a good one (taking into account the mare's pregnant for 11 months, the horse mightn't run 'till it's 2 and it'll be another year or two before he's made a good grade and then you've to wait another while to foal the mare and sell the foal) and are lucky enough that both parents are still alive to repeat the mating because you are nearly guaranteed a big price for your foal.

But that doesn't mean you've got a good one, it's often the opposite.

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Honestly ,how many of you have ever done the repeat mating because appears to be a lot of 'my mate did' or 'i once knew ' . Pity topics like this wernt confined to fact not hearsay or classroom theor

There lies the answer.     Statistically with the same Sire & Dam with an even number of offspring the results should be the same and quality of pups the same. Varying Environmental condition

I've heard this a lot mostly from old timers and I've come to the conclusion that's it's an old wives tale imho . I've seen breeding done in fowl where the turnover and results can be seen a lot quick

I no greyhound breeder. He bred a litter out of his bitch to bexhill Eoin. 5 or6 of these pups made it to clonmel coursing and done good in it. He was breeding the bitch again and I said it to him would you not do a repeat mating and he said no a repeat mating never works. Personally I can't see how it wouldn't work but he was dead against it

That's just it Shane. The man you were talking to was probably talking from experience and the first time I heard it the man who said it probably was breeding at the time 6 or 7 litters a year and he was striving for in his dogs what we strive for in our terriers. Heart and gameness.

When I questioned it he blamed the chromosomes, but like me, he's no scientist, just a practical dog man.

But I did remember what was said and I took it on board.

I let the likes of these men do the hard work because lets face it any terrierman who's breeding more than two litters a year is a peddler and doesn't give a damn about future performance.

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I dont think terrier litters can be compared to greyhound and horse breeding. They breed for the best physical specimins and the fastest in a race. Theres more to it with terriers, its about trying to breed for mental qualities as much as it is physical. Also every man has different qualities that he will look for when breeding terriers. Some like a hard dog, some like a steady dog etc etc the list is endless.

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Your bang on ds I think they might of been a touch older . The only other thing was when you breed off same two you haven't got no where else to go to. As what happened here. Then you have to start from scratch .

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I disagree.

No matter what you require in a working dog be it a hound, a lurcher, a terrier ,a gundog, a greyhound or a sheepdog the one thing that separates the good ones from the bad ones is the desire to do the job and push themselves to the limit.

 

In other words, Heart.

 

Two greyhounds in the same race might be as fast as one another but the one that wants that hare the most usually wins.

A pack of hounds might number 37 and they all have good noses but the ones that want that fox the most will be up front.

One terrier comes off after 4 hours ,most lads happy, another does 10 hours. They're both made up of the same amount of muscle, blood, guts and skin. One want's to stay, one didn't.

Breed for heart, heart and heart and IMO everything else falls into place. No matter what type of working dog.

We all want the same, good ones.

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ive been around terriers lurchers horses and chickens all my life and I've yet to find the perfect faultless animal. The one thing we should all have in commmon is when we breed we should be looking to produce so something better than either parent it doesn't allways go to plan and part of success is failure. It's what happens to these failures that you see a stockmans true colours. Good reading this topic a lot of thought provoking stuff keep it up lads.

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One of the best terriers I've ever seen,was by a dog that was well over 10 year old and a very good digging dog,in fact he died not long after of old age,and up until then never produced much,but having said that most of what was brought to him was sub standard

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ive been around terriers lurchers horses and chickens all my life and I've yet to find the perfect faultless animal. The one thing we should all have in commmon is when we breed we should be looking to produce so something better than either parent it doesn't allways go to plan and part of success is failure. It's what happens to these failures that you see a stockmans true colours. Good reading this topic a lot of thought provoking stuff keep it up lads.

I love that word "Stockman".

You don't hear it too often now but years ago it was only used for someone who had the Stockmans eye which meant they consistently had good animals about them.

A hard thing to do.

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Rabbit hunter I think you are wrong what you say about the breeding is different with dogs and racehorse personaly I think it is very much the same with racehorse they must have a good mental attitude to want to race to become a winner the same with a terrier and as for breeding a good specimen I think you need it in a terrier in a lot of ways especially one that has to work in the morning walk on a lead all day sometimes in bad weather and worked again that afternoon . And with the word specimen I don't mean pretty I'm going off the subject so ill leave it at that and nothing personal just a opinion. fb

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I understand your point and agree to a certain extent. But I think its as much to do mentally as it is physically with terriers as opposed to greyhound/horse racing. To try put my point across a bit better an example of what I mean is when they do them daft terrier races at the shows is the winner the best digging dog?

Edited by Rabbit Hunter
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Honestly ,how many of you have ever done the repeat mating because appears to be a lot of 'my mate did' or 'i once knew ' .

Pity topics like this wernt confined to fact not hearsay or classroom theories .i can tell you all from practice theres no noticeable problem breeding a bitch twice to the age of 7 and is what i and several others base kennels on .The reason breeders dont do it is purely the fear of what if. Get that out your head and see for yourself .Forget trying to create the ultimate digging dog that backfills after itself and concentrate on reproducing the two stayers you bred together in the first place .

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Maybe 2nd or 3rd litter are not as good because lads have stock in their yard already and don't put the same time into them as the 1st litter. Plenty of people never forget their first dog and always say it was their best because it was their only dog and put All the time they had into it which gave the dog experience. Plus if a first mating isn't making a good standard the 2nd won't happen so the odds are statistically in favour of the 1st .

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Maybe 2nd or 3rd litter are not as good because lads have stock in their yard already and don't put the same time into them as the 1st litter. Plenty of people never forget their first dog and always say it was their best because it was their only dog and put All the time they had into it which gave the dog experience. Plus if a first mating isn't making a good standard the 2nd won't happen so the odds are statistically in favour of the 1st .

you get out wat you put in ,you are bang on wat you just sed jiggy.
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