Countryside Alliance

[Barrie 1,325]

 

I have no problem with joining the nwtf but as it stands I believe you have to be in a club, where does that put unsociable people like myself who don't want to join a club?

I can vouch for Tim's unsociability, it's driven both by his looks and nasty little habits. Even subscriptions should be handled by a third party!

 

 

Hmmmmm.... it sounds like I must have married his twin sister then

 

I appreciate your comments Tim.... but unfortunately if the NWTF was to attempt to deal directly with thousands of members, along with all the admin overheads that would create, it would leave little time to do any of the work for which it was originally set up.

 

Y.I.S. - Barrie

[timmy k 571]

It's a sweat gland problem and nothing to do with my low standards of personal hygiene

[desertbred 5,490]

 

 

Barrie, you have come on here and replied and to be honest you come across as a great lad.

Your organisation probably is under funded, you would probably like the machine that the CA have at your disposal all the time.

This is the point of lads though mate, the CA is NOT under funded......it has direct access to politicians........I would assume it has the funds to mount high profile media campaigns in the national press like the RSPCA do and LACS.

But.....it don't !!

And what's more, I would say the vast majority of lads who have subscribed have never and would have no interest in going out following mounted packs.

It's your bricklayer or your steel worker or your builder or your furniture mover that own a lurcher that have been providing a big chuck of these people's income and they feel over looked, not wanted......thrown to the wolves.

I think the point is that all these lads ain't paying 60 sovs to ride round lanes in a jeep and watch a mounted pack 4 miles away through a set of binocs.......they want some action for their money that moves towards giving them their own dog work back.

I may be wrong but that's how I see it.

Interesting discussion, but as usual many appear not to see the wood from the trees? Many ill informed or think they know better yet do little.

A question for the Lurcher lads who are knocking the C.A. for not doing enough for them. With respect. Why don't ye get up off yere backsides and set up your very own national representative body????

Terriermen have a superb national organization, the NWTF and make themselves heard as a group and have done Trojan work over 30 years to protect their game!. By the way, if you work terriers in any fashion "YOU" should be a member, no if's or but's. Just cough up. It should be like a union subscription for terriermen and an embarrassment if you do not support your own. You pay up and they act on your behalf through many channels such as the C.A., council of hunting orgs, and independently, etc. you may not hear what is going on behind the scenes daily but you know they are there and if you are genuinely interested in your sports make time to attend the AGM where you can be well informed.

Every other fieldsport activities have national bodies. The foxhounds have the MFH, Shooting men BASC, hawkers even have their own body to represent "their" interests. Don't leave it to someone else to do it for you. Then as a focused group build up alliances with other orgs and make yourselves heard cohesivesively. This is exactly what all the other national hunt orgs do for "their own" sport and then use the C.A. which they help support and fund to help them. Then you will have knowone else to blame but yourself....... Might see a few lurchers on the C.A. Mag then?

P.S. That terrier did look like a Corgi. ;-)

 

So now lurchermen should find there own way? I thought the whole point of the CA was the ALLIANCE bit. They have spent a lot of money persuading us to join them and be one body. Ive spent plenty of money and put in plenty of effort in supporting that and trying to defend HUNTING WITH DOGS without distinction. The law banning hunting effects us all the same and should be defended equally,the CA advise that the whole should stick together. Has far as I know they do not suggest we create and join other bodies,far from it they are competing for there business as it is without us creating more competition for them..

 

Wasn,t it Cameron and Osbourne that used the "We are all in it together speech" just before the country got stung by the stringent cuts that seem to affect the wage earner a lot more than the profit sharers ? Similar situation is manifesting itself in the hunting and country alliances .

Edited August 21, 2015 by desertbred

[fireman 10,774]

Can you really blame the Countryside Alliance? Look at the French Hunting thread to see people who work terriers give the boy stick because its not "their" type of hunting.

 

You either support the use of dogs or you don't. So called terrier men abusing a man doing a legitimate sport are worse than any Anti's in my opinion.

That wasn't due to not being my type of hunting,that was due to him making a proper mess with sub standard dogs that couldn't do the job they were ment to do,legit it may have been but not the way to do things any where

[Corkman 944]

 

 

 

Barrie, you have come on here and replied and to be honest you come across as a great lad.

Your organisation probably is under funded, you would probably like the machine that the CA have at your disposal all the time.

This is the point of lads though mate, the CA is NOT under funded......it has direct access to politicians........I would assume it has the funds to mount high profile media campaigns in the national press like the RSPCA do and LACS.

But.....it don't !!

And what's more, I would say the vast majority of lads who have subscribed have never and would have no interest in going out following mounted packs.

It's your bricklayer or your steel worker or your builder or your furniture mover that own a lurcher that have been providing a big chuck of these people's income and they feel over looked, not wanted......thrown to the wolves.

I think the point is that all these lads ain't paying 60 sovs to ride round lanes in a jeep and watch a mounted pack 4 miles away through a set of binocs.......they want some action for their money that moves towards giving them their own dog work back.

I may be wrong but that's how I see it.

Interesting discussion, but as usual many appear not to see the wood from the trees? Many ill informed or think they know better yet do little.

A question for the Lurcher lads who are knocking the C.A. for not doing enough for them. With respect. Why don't ye get up off yere backsides and set up your very own national representative body????

Terriermen have a superb national organization, the NWTF and make themselves heard as a group and have done Trojan work over 30 years to protect their game!. By the way, if you work terriers in any fashion "YOU" should be a member, no if's or but's. Just cough up. It should be like a union subscription for terriermen and an embarrassment if you do not support your own. You pay up and they act on your behalf through many channels such as the C.A., council of hunting orgs, and independently, etc. you may not hear what is going on behind the scenes daily but you know they are there and if you are genuinely interested in your sports make time to attend the AGM where you can be well informed.

Every other fieldsport activities have national bodies. The foxhounds have the MFH, Shooting men BASC, hawkers even have their own body to represent "their" interests. Don't leave it to someone else to do it for you. Then as a focused group build up alliances with other orgs and make yourselves heard cohesivesively. This is exactly what all the other national hunt orgs do for "their own" sport and then use the C.A. which they help support and fund to help them. Then you will have knowone else to blame but yourself....... Might see a few lurchers on the C.A. Mag then?

P.S. That terrier did look like a Corgi. ;-)

 

So now lurchermen should find there own way? I thought the whole point of the CA was the ALLIANCE bit. They have spent a lot of money persuading us to join them and be one body. Ive spent plenty of money and put in plenty of effort in supporting that and trying to defend HUNTING WITH DOGS without distinction. The law banning hunting effects us all the same and should be defended equally,the CA advise that the whole should stick together. Has far as I know they do not suggest we create and join other bodies,far from it they are competing for there business as it is without us creating more competition for them..

 

Wasn,t it Cameron and Osbourne that used the "We are all in it together speech" just before the country got stung by the stringent cuts that seem to affect the wage earner a lot more than the profit sharers ? Similar situation is manifesting itself in the hunting and country alliances .

 

Jeemes, I think you have missed my point and I am not saying lurchermen should find their own way....... Big BUT......... they should start to help themselves and get organised to make themselves heard. Then utilise the specific skills the C.A. has (as mentioned by Barrie) to assist them as a cohesive group. That is what every other hunting persuit does........ except lurcher men & women. As a group of individual members you will not get very far as many of you are experiencing and left feeling dismayed. Ditto for terriermen that are not NWTF members. They are acting on their own. Is is not much better for a terrierman to have the assistance of "likeminded" men that can act on behalf of their members and who have 30 years of experience dealing with the C.A. and every ohter hunting body in the country, attend regular national meetings and have a voice at the top table. Keeping under the radar, doing your own thing doesnt get you far In real life. Hence a lot of the lack of belief in what these orgs can do for them.

I certianly do believe in "united we stand" as trying to get anywhere as bunch of indistinct individuals doesn't get you anywhere. The alliance would much rather deal with a focused group led by sensible men, than hundreds of individuals. As an example the C.A. doesnt deal for the most part with individual foxhound packs or individual working terrier clubs, but deals directly with the Masters of Foxhound and NWTF representitives who have nominated savy members to leverage the best out of C.A. that they can.... to me that is the Alliance bit...... If all groups and their members pay in to their own org & C.A. then when trouble comes to one particular activity the C.A. and other orgs back them up. It isnt always as simple as that as politics plays a part in every organisation but this is where good men behind the scenes (in your own org) make things happen.

JMHO.

[desertbred 5,490]

A similar situation was evident with trades unions and the TUC AND TGWU All the unions had there own memberships but were all part of the TUC, when push came to shove the Electricians and Plumbers T/U and the Rail Workers were the most powerful followed by the Engineering unions when Thatcher took the hatchet to the miners and steel workers the TUC did sweet f/all the EPTU got the best deals along with the rail unions and the rest were shafted, sounds a bit like history repeating itself with this support an umbrella organisation like CA do they have the genuine interests of ALL at heart or just the ones who have the right connections for their particular pass time ?

[Corkman 944]

Good example DB. As an extradesman I came through the Union route also. I suppose think of the C.A. as the TUC for hunters with Insurance and legal assistance. The MFH and NWTF are the individual unions with likeminded members who act on their behalf and have the know how for their specific sport. Believe it or not the C.A. depends on the specific expertise of these hunt orgs for guidance and assistance when they need it. There is a void for Lurcher representation. Hunt orgs like unions are made up of members with voting rights. Voting dosnt always go an individuals way! Now if you read back over the recent proposed ammendments in detail you will see that terrierwork had some good workable solutions to assist farmers and was just not about hunt terriermen. That did not happen by chance but by input from terriermen.

 

Maybe that void should be filled to make the C.A. work for Lurcher workers? I wouldn't be depending on the C.A. alone to save my sport but help in the battle we "ALL" face.

[jeemes 3,491]

I dont believe they should be made to work for us. I know what you are saying and you are right,but the truth is they are mainly about hunting with hounds. They are happy to have anyone pushing tory propaganda through letterboxes but they mainly Lobby for hunting with hounds.

[Corkman 944]

I agree they do push the MFH agenda before others because they put more bucks in to C.A. Pockets. Certain orgs will always have more sway depends on membership numbers. Over here the NARGC would have the biggest clout followed by the HAI. But that doesn't mean everyone else is forgotten about. If organized properly then individual orgs can fight their own corner and make progress.

Would you think the major or minority of Lurcher workers have C.A. Membership?

[Corkman 944]

I agree they do push the MFH agenda before others because they put more bucks in to C.A. Pockets. Certain orgs will always have more sway depends on membership numbers. Over here the NARGC would have the biggest clout followed by the HAI. But that doesn't mean everyone else is forgotten about. If organized properly then individual orgs can fight their own corner and make progress.

Would you think the major or minority of Lurcher workers have C.A. Membership?

[stop.end 4,079]

I heard this I heard that, he said this or that....the way I see it is now..... most men have said they had paid their subs and they did f all for them!

 

But the thing is once you sign to these folks to keep insurance up to date.... there is conditions so your insurance that you should have looked closely into meets your needs for starters... don't believe the hype the book writers sell to you... still waiting on this legislation where it says with the correct paper work its illegal to dig a fox in England Scotland wales!

[foxdropper 17,092]

Only legal to rescue a terrier mate not set out to dig it .

[stop.end 4,079]

a fox is an apex predator killer of livestovk, fowl, domestic pets, carrier of many diseases to humans..... it is illegal to do it for fun, but when done for necessity which is the only way terrier work should be conducted... and with the proper authorization its totally humane and legal! ???

[Bo Duke 420]

Courtesy of NWTF

 

ENGLAND & WALES.

The Hunting Act (2004) regulates terrier work In England and Wales, for full details of the Act click here.

 

Summary: This Act (schedule 1 paragraph 2) permits the use of a single dog below ground to flush out wild mammals solely for the purpose of preventing or reducing serious damage to game birds or wild birds being kept or preserved to be shot. The person must carry with them written permission and intend to shoot the wild mammal as soon as possible after it is flushed.

 

All reasonable steps must be taken to prevent risk or injury to the dog and the manner in which it is used must comply with the following code issued by the Secretary of State:

 

The terrier's role is to locate and flush the mammal, not to fight with it.

Only 'soft' terriers which stand back and bark are to be used.

Care must be taken to ensure the safety of those involved and to minimise the risk of injury to either the terrier or the wild mammal.

The terrier's time below ground must be kept as short as is possible.

The terrier must always be fitted with an electronic locator.

Once it is determined a terrier is trapped, assistance must be given to release it immediately.

Under the Act nothing other than nets may be placed over entrance/exit holes during the flushing. It is not permitted to use a terrier to locate, dig down and dispatch the quarry. But if the dog is removed, relocated, secured and not used again, then the quarry may be dug down to and dispatched. The hunting of rats and rabbits is exempt from the above, but does require the landowner or occupiers permission in order to be exempt. For full details of the code, click here.

[cantona 310]

If you can use nets to catch fox can you release it then fill holes in to stop it using the earth to move it on