Countryside Alliance

[Giro 2,648]

 

 

 

The way I look at it; If you're not in the CA then you have absolutely no right to complain about them.

 

These threads serve no purpose at all.

 

The CA IS on our side, of course it is. And I'm sure if someone wanted to send in an article about hunting rabbits or rats then they would publish it. Also, they support terrierwork, and, believe me, they are fighting to keep it. You have only got to look at the last amendment that was pulled due to the SNP backtracking. In that terrierwork had two amendments that would have helped all working terriermen out. That's right, terrierwork legislation was being tweeked in our FAVOUR.

 

:victory: :victory:

 

AND, having reviewed court cases etc for the past couple of years, I really do think that the CA has the best legal team available for terriermen.

 

You have to be realistic, the CA cannot wave a magic wand.......they can only try their best.

I dont get that J...

 

So people can complain if they have paid there subs??

 

They were protecting hunt terrier men at high profile hunts.

 

The overall admednent is to push for more hounds and more reasons to be out hunting.

 

It's still be the same argument CA don't publish or invest in lurcher work or terrier work to my knowledge..

 

Their Web page has information and links for everything but lurcher & terrier work.

 

I've contacted them on multiple occasion and had no response..

 

I contacted them regarding their insurance and working with in the current laws..

 

They never wanted to know..

 

They never wanted to know when it was the 10th anniversary of the last Waterloo cup.

 

If they were to work with these lads in these areas and be seen actively working with a shared goal they could significantly add to the ranks..

 

Its them who have made the devide..

 

I am not anti CA but they could be seen to do more..

 

If the CA produce the goods I'd gladly help with money and my own time..

If its any help in clarifying what support (or otherwise) terrierwork has ever received from the Countryside Alliance.

 

Its been said elsewhere on this thread that If it wasn't for the NWTF all terrier work would have been banned. and having been actively involved with the NWTF since it was very first set up 31 years ago, and having personally been at the sharp end of defending terrierwork for the past 20 Im proud to say theres a lot of truth in that statement.

 

However what the CA bashers on here dont seem to know (maybe they havent been around long enough to know, or simply choose to overlook the facts) is that it was the CA (then the BFSS) who set up the NWTF.

 

Their concern was that the independent terrierman (unlike hunt terriermen) had no formal representation and were unable to speak collectively (a bit like some of the drivel on this thread). And the actions of a very tiny and unrepresentative minority made them a very easy target for our opponents to pick off. Not only did the CA set up the NWTF, but they also funded it for many years and Im sure they put far more time and money into defending terrierwork than they ever got back in return.

 

Things have moved on a lot since then and the NWTF has certainly had its successes, as is evidenced by the fact that terrierwork is the only form of hunting with dogs which the Hunting Act does not seek to ban. Such things dont just happen by chance (remember there was more parliamentary time spent debating the Hunting Act than the Iraq war), but without the support and knowledge of the CA the NWTF could not have achieved any of that on its own. it was very much a team effort. The CA provides the campaigning, lobbying and parliamentary skills we lack and the NWTF the practical knowledge.

 

Similarly, when the Government White Paper on tail docking was first published, the original intention was to ban tail docking for working terriers, it was the CA who opened doors for the NWTF and as a result we were able to convince the Government otherwise (bear in mind both of these Acts were under a very unfriendly Labour Government with a massive majority).

 

Im left wondering how many of the CA bashers actually do anything practical to defend terrierwork, or even have the slightest idea of what goes on in the real world away from THL. Knowing first hand how many tickets were sold, I also wonder how many even bothered to make a £4 donation for the opportunity to win the NWTF 30th Anniversary Painting so generously donated by Pickaxe (it was widely advertised on THL and elsewhere), or have bought a NWTF 25^th Anniversary Badge ?

 

Were all entitled to have our opinions, but please at least let them be informed.

 

Y.I.S. - Barrie

 

P.S. If anyone knows of any other organisation (terrier or otherwise) that has done that much for terrierwork, then please let me know as I'd like to start paying them a subscription.

What practical help can these CA bashers provide then Barrie ? ?

 

I can and do only speak from my own personal dealings with the CA and they have choose not to respond to reasonable requests or support/advice me...

 

If there's something the THL massive can do to help feild sports, point us all in the right direction please.

[neil cooney 10,415]

I've just noticed the mad human types are trying to ban hare coursing in Ireland? I wonder what there main body will do to stop it? The countryside alliance and whatever it was called before have done nothing to protect our way of life , as a worker of terriers it distanced itself from people like me . Can you ever remember an add on TV for us , ever read anything in a newspaper ie advert for pro hunting ? These people you would hope are highly educated and well connected ? I've never been pressured into giving cash over to help our cause, yet our opposition have practically robbed people to get cash to help the banning , they should hang there heads in shame, aswell as losing the right to control animals with hunting dogs, we are now the new hated , I now know how black people and gays felt . Even as a minority we have no rights and are hated all over , where's the alliances balls ....well chopped off . I hope the Irish have some fight . These cheeky animal rights txxxxxs have no right to ban anything , and we've let them

Just to let you know.Regarding your first sentence, once again here in Eire the minister has seen common sense and given the Coursing Clubs their licenses to hold their meetings.

Somebody must be fighting our corner.

[Bosun11 537]

That's just the thing, I don't want to be a CA basher, i really don't but lets not get too historical, this is an issue for now because its now that we feel unsupported.

 

If it's all about politics, what political party would only publish its manafesto through its own magazine, leave out issues that a huge chunk of possible supporters need to know and never speak directly to the public to try to win them over with what they are or going to do...?

[Giro 2,648]

That's just the thing, I don't want to be a CA basher, i really don't but lets not get too historical, this is an issue for now because its now that we feel unsupported.

 

If it's all about politics, what political party would only publish its manafesto through its own magazine, leave out issues that a huge chunk of possible supporters need to know and never speak directly to the public to try to win them over with what they are or going to do...?

Here here ...

[Barrie 1,325]

To those that appear to champion the organisation ,i would ask only this ,why is there no insurance attached to our pastime but anything else is covered .It grates me that i cant work a dog legally with insurance attached but i can go out with a centre fire and know i have 10 mil backup to an extent .My own thinking is that we are an embarrasment at best and at worst something they want distance from .This pisses me off .

Ive paid into all of the sporting bodies over the years and attended meetings but now its just the cheapest to provide the cover.

In my life someone has to earn respect not expect it and im afraid these chaps expect far too much of it without giving a shit about us .

The divide you speak of was never created by us but by those who seek to further their own careers by backstabbing and using their position to champion their own sports .Try talking to any CA official about terrierwork and lurchers and watch the f****r squirm .Divided yes ,down and out ,never .

 

Hi Foxdropper

 

I'm not sure if you'd class me as "championing the CA" ?

 

But to put the record straight, what I've tried to do is to give some insight into my own first hand personal experience of the manner in which the CA has supported my chosen sport..... terrierwork.

 

Why have I bothered ?

 

Because I know, based on my own experience (not hearsay) just how supportive they have been of terrierwork and over what a very long period of time.

 

I also believe if we are to see any better changes for the future, then the CA is the only organisation who can pull it off AND even more important.... they are only organisation who will even try.

 

If I'm wrong.... then someone please tell me of all the other organisations with a stated commitment to work towards the repeal of the Hunting Act..... cos I'd like to subscribe to them too.

 

With regards to your insurance cover, if you go to the CA website (as I've just done) and type "insurance" into the search box, you can check out what cover their membership insurance offers and also access the policy documents themselves.

 

My reading is that it covers "Any Member of the Countryside Alliance, or Countryside Alliance Ireland whilst participating in any Recognised Activity".

 

It then goes on in the policy schedule to list both terrier and lurcher work as "recognised activities".

 

I hope this helps clarify things.

 

Y.I.S. - Barrie

[WILF 44,286]

 

Barrie, fair play to you but I will just ask one question.......when was the last time you saw a picture of a working terrier or a lurcher out in the field on the front cover

Spring 2015 hahaha

image.jpg

One of your dogs is famous !!.....you kept that quiet !

[Bo Duke 420]

 

 

Barrie, fair play to you but I will just ask one question.......when was the last time you saw a picture of a working terrier or a lurcher out in the field on the front cover

Spring 2015 hahahaimage.jpg

One of your dogs is famous !!.....you kept that quiet !

I thought that was one of the conditions when you loaned it me to keep it under the radar

[WILF 44,286]

I know a man who would be very jealous to own such a beast !! Lol...........in fact it looks very much like his stuff ! Lol

[WILF 44,286]

 

To those that appear to champion the organisation ,i would ask only this ,why is there no insurance attached to our pastime but anything else is covered .It grates me that i cant work a dog legally with insurance attached but i can go out with a centre fire and know i have 10 mil backup to an extent .My own thinking is that we are an embarrasment at best and at worst something they want distance from .This pisses me off .

Ive paid into all of the sporting bodies over the years and attended meetings but now its just the cheapest to provide the cover.

In my life someone has to earn respect not expect it and im afraid these chaps expect far too much of it without giving a shit about us .

The divide you speak of was never created by us but by those who seek to further their own careers by backstabbing and using their position to champion their own sports .Try talking to any CA official about terrierwork and lurchers and watch the f****r squirm .Divided yes ,down and out ,never .

 

Hi Foxdropper

 

I'm not sure if you'd class me as "championing the CA" ?

 

But to put the record straight, what I've tried to do is to give some insight into my own first hand personal experience of the manner in which the CA has supported my chosen sport..... terrierwork.

 

Why have I bothered ?

 

Because I know, based on my own experience (not hearsay) just how supportive they have been of terrierwork and over what a very long period of time.

 

I also believe if we are to see any better changes for the future, then the CA is the only organisation who can pull it off AND even more important.... they are only organisation who will even try.

 

If I'm wrong.... then someone please tell me of all the other organisations with a stated commitment to work towards the repeal of the Hunting Act..... cos I'd like to subscribe to them too.

 

With regards to your insurance cover, if you go to the CA website (as I've just done) and type "insurance" into the search box, you can check out what cover their membership insurance offers and also access the policy documents themselves.

 

My reading is that it covers "Any Member of the Countryside Alliance, or Countryside Alliance Ireland whilst participating in any Recognised Activity".

 

It then goes on in the policy schedule to list both terrier and lurcher work as "recognised activities".

 

I hope this helps clarify things.

 

Y.I.S. - Barrie

Haha.....I suppose being "small print" is worth 60 sovs of anyone's money !!

[Giro 2,648]

 

 

To those that appear to champion the organisation ,i would ask only this ,why is there no insurance attached to our pastime but anything else is covered .It grates me that i cant work a dog legally with insurance attached but i can go out with a centre fire and know i have 10 mil backup to an extent .My own thinking is that we are an embarrasment at best and at worst something they want distance from .This pisses me off .

Ive paid into all of the sporting bodies over the years and attended meetings but now its just the cheapest to provide the cover.

In my life someone has to earn respect not expect it and im afraid these chaps expect far too much of it without giving a shit about us .

The divide you speak of was never created by us but by those who seek to further their own careers by backstabbing and using their position to champion their own sports .Try talking to any CA official about terrierwork and lurchers and watch the f****r squirm .Divided yes ,down and out ,never .

Hi Foxdropper

 

I'm not sure if you'd class me as "championing the CA" ?

 

But to put the record straight, what I've tried to do is to give some insight into my own first hand personal experience of the manner in which the CA has supported my chosen sport..... terrierwork.

 

Why have I bothered ?

 

Because I know, based on my own experience (not hearsay) just how supportive they have been of terrierwork and over what a very long period of time.

 

I also believe if we are to see any better changes for the future, then the CA is the only organisation who can pull it off AND even more important.... they are only organisation who will even try.

 

If I'm wrong.... then someone please tell me of all the other organisations with a stated commitment to work towards the repeal of the Hunting Act..... cos I'd like to subscribe to them too.

 

With regards to your insurance cover, if you go to the CA website (as I've just done) and type "insurance" into the search box, you can check out what cover their membership insurance offers and also access the policy documents themselves.

 

My reading is that it covers "Any Member of the Countryside Alliance, or Countryside Alliance Ireland whilst participating in any Recognised Activity".

 

It then goes on in the policy schedule to list both terrier and lurcher work as "recognised activities".

 

I hope this helps clarify things.

 

Y.I.S. - Barrie

When asked for more clarity on the,

" recognised activities" and grey areas surrounding running dogs, the CA never responded..

 

I personally emailed the area rep and still was left in the dark..

[Barrie 1,325]

 

 

 

The way I look at it; If you're not in the CA then you have absolutely no right to complain about them.

 

These threads serve no purpose at all.

 

The CA IS on our side, of course it is. And I'm sure if someone wanted to send in an article about hunting rabbits or rats then they would publish it. Also, they support terrierwork, and, believe me, they are fighting to keep it. You have only got to look at the last amendment that was pulled due to the SNP backtracking. In that terrierwork had two amendments that would have helped all working terriermen out. That's right, terrierwork legislation was being tweeked in our FAVOUR.

 

:victory: :victory:

 

AND, having reviewed court cases etc for the past couple of years, I really do think that the CA has the best legal team available for terriermen.

 

You have to be realistic, the CA cannot wave a magic wand.......they can only try their best.

I dont get that J...

 

So people can complain if they have paid there subs??

 

They were protecting hunt terrier men at high profile hunts.

 

The overall admednent is to push for more hounds and more reasons to be out hunting.

 

It's still be the same argument CA don't publish or invest in lurcher work or terrier work to my knowledge..

 

Their Web page has information and links for everything but lurcher & terrier work.

 

I've contacted them on multiple occasion and had no response..

 

I contacted them regarding their insurance and working with in the current laws..

 

They never wanted to know..

 

They never wanted to know when it was the 10th anniversary of the last Waterloo cup.

 

If they were to work with these lads in these areas and be seen actively working with a shared goal they could significantly add to the ranks..

 

Its them who have made the devide..

 

I am not anti CA but they could be seen to do more..

 

If the CA produce the goods I'd gladly help with money and my own time..

If its any help in clarifying what support (or otherwise) terrierwork has ever received from the Countryside Alliance.

 

Its been said elsewhere on this thread that If it wasn't for the NWTF all terrier work would have been banned. and having been actively involved with the NWTF since it was very first set up 31 years ago, and having personally been at the sharp end of defending terrierwork for the past 20 Im proud to say theres a lot of truth in that statement.

 

However what the CA bashers on here dont seem to know (maybe they havent been around long enough to know, or simply choose to overlook the facts) is that it was the CA (then the BFSS) who set up the NWTF.

 

Their concern was that the independent terrierman (unlike hunt terriermen) had no formal representation and were unable to speak collectively (a bit like some of the drivel on this thread). And the actions of a very tiny and unrepresentative minority made them a very easy target for our opponents to pick off. Not only did the CA set up the NWTF, but they also funded it for many years and Im sure they put far more time and money into defending terrierwork than they ever got back in return.

 

Things have moved on a lot since then and the NWTF has certainly had its successes, as is evidenced by the fact that terrierwork is the only form of hunting with dogs which the Hunting Act does not seek to ban. Such things dont just happen by chance (remember there was more parliamentary time spent debating the Hunting Act than the Iraq war), but without the support and knowledge of the CA the NWTF could not have achieved any of that on its own. it was very much a team effort. The CA provides the campaigning, lobbying and parliamentary skills we lack and the NWTF the practical knowledge.

 

Similarly, when the Government White Paper on tail docking was first published, the original intention was to ban tail docking for working terriers, it was the CA who opened doors for the NWTF and as a result we were able to convince the Government otherwise (bear in mind both of these Acts were under a very unfriendly Labour Government with a massive majority).

 

Im left wondering how many of the CA bashers actually do anything practical to defend terrierwork, or even have the slightest idea of what goes on in the real world away from THL. Knowing first hand how many tickets were sold, I also wonder how many even bothered to make a £4 donation for the opportunity to win the NWTF 30th Anniversary Painting so generously donated by Pickaxe (it was widely advertised on THL and elsewhere), or have bought a NWTF 25^th Anniversary Badge ?

 

Were all entitled to have our opinions, but please at least let them be informed.

 

Y.I.S. - Barrie

 

P.S. If anyone knows of any other organisation (terrier or otherwise) that has done that much for terrierwork, then please let me know as I'd like to start paying them a subscription.

What practical help can these CA bashers provide then Barrie ? ?

 

I can and do only speak from my own personal dealings with the CA and they have choose not to respond to reasonable requests or support/advice me...

 

If there's something the THL massive can do to help feild sports, point us all in the right direction please.

 

 

1. If we're to make any headway at all then we need to be organised and united (a decent terrier club in theory should in part offer that opportunity.... at least in theory).

2. If you're not a member of a terrier club, then join one (preferably one which is a member of the NWTF).

3. If they are no terrier clubs in your area, then get together with a few friends and form one.

4. If you are a member of a terrier club, make your presence known and attend their meetings and particularly their AGM.

5. Ask them if they've paid their annual subscriptions, or made a donation to the NWTF (if the answer to either is No.... then ask them why not).

6. Ask your Club if it sent any representatives to the NWTF AGM (if the answer is NO.... then ask them why not).

 

The reality of life in the "world of working terriers" is that, despite its achievements, the NWTF stays afloat due mainly to the commitment of a handful of key individuals and the continued generosity of a relatively small number of clubs and individuals who give much more than their fair share.

 

If we are to survive at all, then in my view we need to look at ourselves much more closely, rather than simply criticising others and expecting them to perform miracles on our behalf.

 

J.M.H.O. - Barrie

 

Bosun, I know you can answer Yes, Yes and Yes, so I'm sure you'll have a bit more insight than some into my comments.

Edited August 20, 2015 by Barrie

[WILF 44,286]

Barrie, you have come on here and replied and to be honest you come across as a great lad.

Your organisation probably is under funded, you would probably like the machine that the CA have at your disposal all the time.

 

This is the point of lads though mate, the CA is NOT under funded......it has direct access to politicians........I would assume it has the funds to mount high profile media campaigns in the national press like the RSPCA do and LACS.

 

But.....it don't !!

 

And what's more, I would say the vast majority of lads who have subscribed have never and would have no interest in going out following mounted packs.

 

It's your bricklayer or your steel worker or your builder or your furniture mover that own a lurcher that have been providing a big chuck of these people's income and they feel over looked, not wanted......thrown to the wolves.

 

I think the point is that all these lads ain't paying 60 sovs to ride round lanes in a jeep and watch a mounted pack 4 miles away through a set of binocs.......they want some action for their money that moves towards giving them their own dog work back.

 

I may be wrong but that's how I see it.

[Bosun11 537]

Great post Wilf.

[foxdropper 17,092]

Barrie mate ,ive had dealings with their insurance people and was left very disheartened ,nay very pissed off actually at their reluctance to back up a lad doing legit terrierwork who finds himself in need of advice .I stand by the fact that real terrierwork is not covered by the policy but would love to hear from anyone whos been treated well .A man can only honestly comment on whats been put infront of him at any one time in life ,not hearsay ,not money talking just facts .

No doubt there are good men in the org but yet to meet one who is as passionate about our way of life as we are .

Just to let you know mate ,their underwriters small print excludes the 'digging out of mammals'.Just one way to nul and void your insurance .

[stop.end 4,079]

Barrie mate ,ive had dealings with their insurance people and was left very disheartened ,nay very pissed off actually at their reluctance to back up a lad doing legit terrierwork who finds himself in need of advice .I stand by the fact that real terrierwork is not covered by the policy but would love to hear from anyone whos been treated well .A man can only honestly comment on whats been put infront of him at any one time in life ,not hearsay ,not money talking just facts .

No doubt there are good men in the org but yet to meet one who is as passionate about our way of life as we are .

Just to let you know mate ,their underwriters small print excludes the 'digging out of mammals'.Just one way to nul and void your insurance .

terrierwork is LEGAL in the U.K. ? so no insurance should be void if you are digging a fox in the UK and you have written permission from landowner or agent to authorize that work?