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It is just the prices. Much as I love free range and fresh grub. 

Culmore Organic Farm Raw Milk £1.25 per litre (2 litres £2.50)

Aldi 1.20 or less for 2 litres I think. I know which I would prefer but just not afford. There is a farm up the road where you can help your self from a machine and the daughter treats me to a bottle some times but its a treat. Saying that I am all ways scanning fb for local fresh pork and lamb and often buy a half of some thing if the price is ok. So for me it's simply money

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All this talk of food has made me hungry, so the missus has made a game pie; Main ingredients are hare and pigeon, onions, garlic, black pudding and red wine. Dont know if

A pretty nice picture from today 

Thank goodness for that for a minute i thought this was going to be a topic about jockstraps !!

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20 minutes ago, Neal said:

Re the organic status: I'm sure I've seen several times over the years that, in some respects, people are still happy to buy the stuff if you're genuinely saying, "We're not Organic with a capital O but we are organic."

Re the boxes: we've had one delivered for the first time yesterday. It was from a company called HelloFresh and, to be honest, the only reason we got it was because it was free. My wife's friend uses them and put her down as a recommendation. Basically, you get the first box free but only if you sign up. So my wife signed up, then cancelled, then got the free box. Clever! I can't comment on the economics, as it was free, but what we both liked about it was that you simply order one of a multitude of their meals online and then the box supplies everything you need in the correct amounts. My better half liked this because she can never be arsed to buy "the fiddly little things" and sticks to main ingredients (therefore any flavour is supplied through the ubiquitous jar of sauce). Conversely, I prefer a stronger flavour so I like the "fiddly little things." I guess what I'm trying to say is that the meals (which you make yourself from scratch using the ingredients provided) had everything to make them taste amazing but without having to root around in Harrods for some ingredient you've never heard of. Hoisin Sticky Baked Chicken Thighs tonight!

We used hellofresh for some time but found it didn't last very long so if you had a takeaway you threw a meal away. We still use the recipe cards and there's a few the misses cooks every week, you can get all the recipes off the site

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31 minutes ago, terryd said:

It is just the prices. Much as I love free range and fresh grub. 

Culmore Organic Farm Raw Milk £1.25 per litre (2 litres £2.50)

Aldi 1.20 or less for 2 litres I think. I know which I would prefer but just not afford. There is a farm up the road where you can help your self from a machine and the daughter treats me to a bottle some times but its a treat. Saying that I am all ways scanning fb for local fresh pork and lamb and often buy a half of some thing if the price is ok. So for me it's simply money

Fair point that mate, however I think we all know that when it comes to intensely reared products there’s a price you pay on top of the price you pay if you get my drift.

So it’s a conscious choice on the part of the consumer and I don’t think I would worry to much about that.

Some people will make that choice and some won’t, of course you want to be competitive but I have never been interested in a race to the bottom either in my previous life in business....you have to value yourself and what you do and set a bar.

But I do hear you and it’s a shame that decent food isn’t more financially accessible for people.....however, that’s a whole other conversation ?

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29 minutes ago, WILF said:

Fair point that mate, however I think we all know that when it comes to intensely reared products there’s a price you pay on top of the price you pay if you get my drift.

So it’s a conscious choice on the part of the consumer and I don’t think I would worry to much about that.

Some people will make that choice and some won’t, of course you want to be competitive but I have never been interested in a race to the bottom either in my previous life in business....you have to value yourself and what you do and set a bar.

But I do hear you and it’s a shame that decent food isn’t more financially accessible for people.....however, that’s a whole other conversation ?

People keep talking about these intensively reared products and large scale commercial farming and all its negativity. Can you explain what you actually mean ?

And re decent food being more financially accessible - it’s not got so much to do with farmers as the rest of the chain. I often find small scale producers charge crazy money for something which isn’t overly special. 

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35 minutes ago, SheepChaser said:

People keep talking about these intensively reared products and large scale commercial farming and all its negativity. Can you explain what you actually mean ?

And re decent food being more financially accessible - it’s not got so much to do with farmers as the rest of the chain. I often find small scale producers charge crazy money for something which isn’t overly special. 

Wow, where do I start with that.

Well first off, I’m not slagging proper commercial farmers at all mate, they are working within a system and have to comply with the rules in that system and do the things that the system tells them to do to make money.
 

Let’s start with soil because frankly the soil is the lifeblood of every plant and animal.

The system relies on inputs to sustain mono cultures of grass & crops (not always but as a rule).....This involves firstly ploughing which releases carbon sequestered in the soil and destroys soil structure.

You then plant a Single species mono culture of grass or crop and because there isn’t a mixture of species (legumes etc) the soil can’t harvest all the nutrients it needs to feed those plants......so, they tip on a load of chemical fertiliser (which has a massive carbon foot print) to help them along.

They then routinely spray with glyphosate in order to stop weeds.

This in turn kills earth worms and almost all other forms of life in the soil that the soil needs to function and so more chemicals are required ! 
The soil is literally dead.

Animals are routinely medicated and slurry etc used, this slurry is full of mectins (chemical worm and fluke treatment) which again kills all the essential insects (like dung beetles) which will process that dung into organic matter to build soil fertility......it ceases to be manure, it’s just shit.

This then leeches nitrogen which will require the application of yet more chemical nitrogen......and so the whole mad hideous circle continues.

Bottom line is, what we eat is soaking up all this chemical crap and we eat it ! 
 

I could go on and on and on.......but that’s about the bones of it ?

Edited by WILF
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I worked for a while for Riverford meat boxes. I was out of work for a while and worked as a contractor just packing boxes, soul destroying. Their meat boxes are over priced and I would not buy them, the bacon had an inch of fat on it and they make up some of the bulk with cut up bones called stock bones Lol. Even back then £16 for a Chicken they did look nice mind. It's corporate now not all it's cracked up to be. Buy a lot of my meat from the local butcher or there is a farmer at the market that has a stall, I ask him what is it this week Peter oh Dexter or Rubyred. Organic does taste better but takes longer to mature hence the price. I'm happy to buy local grass fed meat and better it I know what farm its from. Trouble with super market beef it's not hung thats why it's so wet and to be fair I have had some nice steaks but it's inconsistent.

Got bit side tracked there but would not buy any off the big suppliers of boxes. But if a small local greengrocers started a scheme I would give it a go.

Cheers Arry

 

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2 minutes ago, Arry said:

I worked for a while for Riverford meat boxes. I was out of work for a while and worked as a contractor just packing boxes, soul destroying. Their meat boxes are over priced and I would not buy them, the bacon had an inch of fat on it and they make up some of the bulk with cut up bones called stock bones Lol. Even back then £16 for a Chicken they did look nice mind. It's corporate now not all it's cracked up to be. Buy a lot of my meat from the local butcher or there is a farmer at the market that has a stall, I ask him what is it this week Peter oh Dexter or Rubyred. Organic does taste better but takes longer to mature hence the price. I'm happy to buy local grass fed meat and better it I know what farm its from. Trouble with super market beef it's not hung thats why it's so wet and to be fair I have had some nice steaks but it's inconsistent.

Got bit side tracked there but would not buy any off the big suppliers of boxes. But if a small local greengrocers started a scheme I would give it a go.

Cheers Arry

 

Fair play mate, however I think it’s easy to forget that we don’t pay the real price of food at point of sale do we.

£16 for a chicken is probably the totally correct price, but we pay £4 at point of sale and subsidise the rest out of tax and treating the animals like shit whilst killing the planet we live on.

Theres no such thing as “cheap” food imho, just smoke and mirrors ?

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Just now, riohog said:

allthough i dont think itwill be a big market .how about oven ready   game in a box , rabbit , phesant ,ect  

Couldn’t produce that off my own place mate.

Theres a few lads at it mind you and I think there should be a lot more, maybe people see that product as bit “niche” ? 

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1 minute ago, chartpolski said:

Game is so politically incorrect with the woke snowflake generation, your more likely to have protesters at your door than buyers !

Cheers.

supermarkets sell it ,all be it at rediculous prices  for a small piece of venison 

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45 minutes ago, WILF said:

Wow, where do I start with that.

Well first off, I’m not slagging proper commercial farmers at all mate, they are working within a system and have to comply with the rules in that system and do the things that the system tells them to do to make money.
 

Let’s start with soil because frankly the soil is the lifeblood of every plant and animal.

The system relies on inputs to sustain mono cultures of grass & crops (not always but as a rule).....This involves firstly ploughing which releases carbon sequestered in the soil and destroys soil structure.

You then plant a Single species mono culture of grass or crop and because there isn’t a mixture of species (legumes etc) the soil can’t harvest all the nutrients it needs to feed those plants......so, they tip on a load of chemical fertiliser (which has a massive carbon foot print) to help them along.

They then routinely spray with glyphosate in order to stop weeds.

This in turn kills earth worms and almost all other forms of life in the soil that the soil needs to function and so more chemicals are required ! 
The soil is literally dead.

Animals are routinely medicated and slurry etc used, this slurry is full of mectins (chemical worm and fluke treatment) which again kills all the essential insects (like dung beetles) which will process that dung into organic matter to build soil fertility......it ceases to be manure, it’s just shit.

This then leeches nitrogen which will require the application of yet more chemical nitrogen......and so the whole mad hideous circle continues.

Bottom line is, what we eat is soaking up all this chemical crap and we eat it ! 
 

I could go on and on and on.......but that’s about the bones of it ?

I can see you’ve obviously read up on it.

What gets me is that although much of what you say above is true to a certain extent, there are just as many folk not doing the above at all! At the end of the day, farmers are out to make money, but are also custodians of the land - and many do take that quite seriously.

Treating the land as you have described, doesn’t ultimately make you as much profit as perhaps it once did, a case of both diminished returns and people just wisening up! There are huge numbers of large scale farming operations doing the opposite of what you say above. We farm over 1000 cattle, thousands of sheep, couple thousand hens, about 1000 acres of arable etc etc. We done use any routine meds, don’t use mectins, count earth worms, measure soil compaction, soil organic matter etc. We do this stuff for two reasons - it’s nice and also it makes money! We use the stock to manage the land, and we grow multi species herbal leys with lots of variety. Why? Because it works and it makes money.  I see just as much (or more) terrible practices carried out on traditional family farms, and to be fair I think that’s where a lot of the problem lies - in out dated practices which persist as it’s the way it’s always been and these small family units are protected by subs when in reality they aren’t viable in many ways.

Ill give you an example - we farm a lot of sheep and totally commercially, I sell a lamb on the hook for about eighty quid and it goes to the supermarket. It’s had no anti biotics, no feed, little or no wormer etc etc. There’s a guy down the toad with a few sheep, sells nice boxed lamb at about 200 a carcass, his lambs are regularly wormed as the pasture is wormy and had sheep on too long, he feeds a bit of cake, lambs are born inside etc etc. In reality my meat is higher welfare and cleaner but any man in the street would say it’s the opposite. 

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25 minutes ago, SheepChaser said:

I can see you’ve obviously read up on it.

What gets me is that although much of what you say above is true to a certain extent, there are just as many folk not doing the above at all! At the end of the day, farmers are out to make money, but are also custodians of the land - and many do take that quite seriously.

Treating the land as you have described, doesn’t ultimately make you as much profit as perhaps it once did, a case of both diminished returns and people just wisening up! There are huge numbers of large scale farming operations doing the opposite of what you say above. We farm over 1000 cattle, thousands of sheep, couple thousand hens, about 1000 acres of arable etc etc. We done use any routine meds, don’t use mectins, count earth worms, measure soil compaction, soil organic matter etc. We do this stuff for two reasons - it’s nice and also it makes money! We use the stock to manage the land, and we grow multi species herbal leys with lots of variety. Why? Because it works and it makes money.  I see just as much (or more) terrible practices carried out on traditional family farms, and to be fair I think that’s where a lot of the problem lies - in out dated practices which persist as it’s the way it’s always been and these small family units are protected by subs when in reality they aren’t viable in many ways.

Ill give you an example - we farm a lot of sheep and totally commercially, I sell a lamb on the hook for about eighty quid and it goes to the supermarket. It’s had no anti biotics, no feed, little or no wormer etc etc. There’s a guy down the toad with a few sheep, sells nice boxed lamb at about 200 a carcass, his lambs are regularly wormed as the pasture is wormy and had sheep on too long, he feeds a bit of cake, lambs are born inside etc etc. In reality my meat is higher welfare and cleaner but any man in the street would say it’s the opposite. 

Mate, that is fantastic to read and I think Farmers get bad press, When I talk about these things I’m NEVER having a go at the farmer, it’s the system that’s shite.

I think what you are doing is the future and I think a lot of farmers with their finger on the pulse know that too.....as you say, I genuinely believe they feel a connection to their land and the nature within it, 100% with that ?

I think you know well the type of practices I’m talking about and they have been going on for too long, but we are seeing change and that’s a good thing......in most cases that change is being driven by farms like yours, let’s face it, the ministry isn’t interested in little tiny blokes just messing about on their land like me.

As I said, I am not slagging farmers, I’m slagging the system.

On the subject of small farms viability, if they ain’t a farm then they are a housing estate and all that comes with it.....I would support them all day long and let’s face it, food should be at a price where they can survive without subsidy?

** Just to add, I personally receive no subsidy of any kind because I’m not considered a big enough farm ?

A bit of subsidy would come in very handy as well ! Lol ? 

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