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On 19/07/2020 at 17:42, jigsaw said:

How tall and is he driven? 

Good question re how tall, I’ll measure him but got to be 22/23 TTS I’d think, maybe more. 
 

Very laid back dog in lots of ways but mad for work, massive stamina, loves to graft. But none of that obsessive neurotic border collie stuff you sometimes see. Very personable to, biddable and easy to have with you. But pisses on f***ing everything.

Likes a bit of murder to 😂

He’s sired one litter and throws his jacket. Would be interesting over a grey, but got another dog here probably better prospect.  

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few pics of her 

Few pics a the mongrel👍

Mine is turning out as I had hoped, Comes with me everywhere, she can go all day, But just lays quietly if there’s not much going on, Strong desire to work and hunt, can be a bit nervy sometimes

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Just curious how if anyone has had the experience of how they differ to the border collie half cross......in terms of temperament and work style.

I found with pure collies and the the half cross collies they vary a lot in their drive to work. I’ve had some that have that really natural instinct to get nose down and love to hunt/graft even when there’s not much if anything at all about they still want to hunt.

Then I’ve had the ones that will graft if it’s in the vicinity, but won’t naturally have that instinct/drive to hunt hard and find when there’s not much about and will probably pick up a stick or just look at me for direction and when I send them off to hunt they just look at me as to say there’s nowt about.....sense my frustration and go off to find a stick to piss me off even more.

Edited by Shortstraw
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1 hour ago, Shortstraw said:

Just curious how if anyone has had the experience of how they differ to the border collie half cross......in terms of temperament and work style.

I found with pure collies and the the half cross collies they vary a lot in their drive to work. I’ve had some that have that really natural instinct to get nose down and love to hunt/graft even when there’s not much if anything at all about they still want to hunt.

Then I’ve had the ones that will graft if it’s in the vicinity, but won’t naturally have that instinct/drive to hunt hard and find when there’s not much about and will probably pick up a stick or just look at me for direction and when I send them off to hunt they just look at me as to say there’s nowt about.....sense my frustration and go off to find a stick to piss me off even more.

I've had a little bit of experience, but it was over twenty years ago and with a limited number of dogs. I've had a half bred beardie x greyhound, a half bred collie x whippet (with a quarter greyhound in the whippet and a quarter beardie in the collie) and a half bred kelpie/collie x greyhound.

I'd say that, in my limited experience, the beardie blood was similar to the kelpie blood in giving them that, "I know what I'm doing, just leave me alone so I can get on with it" attitude.

The collie x whippet was the most biddable of the three but she was very highly strung and took offence easily. However, she was only my second pup and, in hindsight, I picked the wrong one as she was already very nervy as a pup. The breeder had named her Sky, which I altered to Skye, but later found out she'd named her that for short as she'd nicknamed her Shy-Sky as a pup.

The kelpie/collie x greyhound was the most intelligent and the best lurcher I ever had but the collie line was different from the other two and pretty good from what I've since heard (descended from Barry Sharpe's Moss...a chocolate and white collie). 

The kelpies and kelpie crosses I've had can be just as likely to be sensitive but the result tends to be "Sod you then!" * compared to "Woe is me!" It is possible to turn a kelpie (cross) into a push button dog but why waste a century and a half of excellent breeding choices by some very wise Australians just to own what would effectively be a black and tan collie. Not that there's anything wrong with a collie, I hasten to add, it's simply that their attitudes are somewhat different. I can fully understand why the majority of people prefer the collie temperament, and there are times when I wish mine would not question everything I say, but (and like Arrabella Weir it's a big but(t)) they're usually right.

* A great story I was told by the farmer who bred Noggin and also bred both of Ned's parents concerned her early days with her first kelpie. She was accustomed to working collies so was trying to round up some sheep into a pen with him using the usual, "Come bye, 'way to me" etc when he became seemingly a bit peed off with her and walked off. She stood there shouting and swearing at him and then walked off herself. As this point Aussie went back, rounded up the whole flock and put them in the right place. She said it was as though he was saying, "I know what you want, I know where you want them to go and I know how to do it, so stop going on and leave me to get on with it." They definitely work with you rather than necessarily for you.

Edited by Neal
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28 minutes ago, Neal said:

The collie x whippet was the most biddable of the three but she was very highly strung and took offence easily. However, she was only my second pup and, in hindsight, I picked the wrong one as she was already very nervy as a pup. The breeder had named her Sky, which I altered to Skye, but later found out she'd named her that for short as she'd nicknamed her Shy-Sky as a pup.

The 1st lurcher i owned as a lad was a collie whippet 1/2 cross, and sounds very similar, was very trainable and keen to hunt but a little nervy. In truth never had the speed to meet the needs of a young lad, straight lined by a rabbit with a start, but in her own way was a great little dog and taught me most of what i know. To this day an old pencil sketch of her still hangs on my old girls wall nearly 50 years later.

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22 hours ago, Neal said:

I've had a little bit of experience, but it was over twenty years ago and with a limited number of dogs. I've had a half bred beardie x greyhound, a half bred collie x whippet (with a quarter greyhound in the whippet and a quarter beardie in the collie) and a half bred kelpie/collie x greyhound.

I'd say that, in my limited experience, the beardie blood was similar to the kelpie blood in giving them that, "I know what I'm doing, just leave me alone so I can get on with it" attitude.

The collie x whippet was the most biddable of the three but she was very highly strung and took offence easily. However, she was only my second pup and, in hindsight, I picked the wrong one as she was already very nervy as a pup. The breeder had named her Sky, which I altered to Skye, but later found out she'd named her that for short as she'd nicknamed her Shy-Sky as a pup.

The kelpie/collie x greyhound was the most intelligent and the best lurcher I ever had but the collie line was different from the other two and pretty good from what I've since heard (descended from Barry Sharpe's Moss...a chocolate and white collie). 

The kelpies and kelpie crosses I've had can be just as likely to be sensitive but the result tends to be "Sod you then!" * compared to "Woe is me!" It is possible to turn a kelpie (cross) into a push button dog but why waste a century and a half of excellent breeding choices by some very wise Australians just to own what would effectively be a black and tan collie. Not that there's anything wrong with a collie, I hasten to add, it's simply that their attitudes are somewhat different. I can fully understand why the majority of people prefer the collie temperament, and there are times when I wish mine would not question everything I say, but (and like Arrabella Weir it's a big but(t)) they're usually right.

* A great story I was told by the farmer who bred Noggin and also bred both of Ned's parents concerned her early days with her first kelpie. She was accustomed to working collies so was trying to round up some sheep into a pen with him using the usual, "Come bye, 'way to me" etc when he became seemingly a bit peed off with her and walked off. She stood there shouting and swearing at him and then walked off herself. As this point Aussie went back, rounded up the whole flock and put them in the right place. She said it was as though he was saying, "I know what you want, I know where you want them to go and I know how to do it, so stop going on and leave me to get on with it." They definitely work with you rather than necessarily for you.

Cheer for that. I had a border/beardie x greyhound many years ago and sort of had the temperament you describe, just got on and did his thing. You couldn’t have asked for a better temperament of dog, so laid back at home. If the kids came round to the house he’d go outside to his kennel. He was so gentle and calm, but when out he was a different dog, such a natural hunter. He would range much more.......he was totally different to straight border collie cross....he just had a hunting drive more like a spaniel.

Have you ever considered getting a spaniel x lurcher as a mooching dog? There so over looked especially as daytime hunting mooching dogs. Intelligent, very easily trained, hunts brilliantly...lost count how many pheasants she’s caught...she’s had everything. She does occasionally yip through frustration when chasing and has become very nose sensitive, aeroplanes (training jets, thunder, not too bad with gunshot), but I believe this was due to when she was a pup some tools set some air-bombs off in the local park, she was only about 18 weeks old, she bolted home, so lucky she didn’t get knocked over, but honestly so over looked as mooching companions.

Edited by Shortstraw
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To be honest, every now and then I consider whether to try something different, usually along the lines of a small whippet x gundog or whippet x sheepdog, but then I remember the fact that I've got to actually live with the dog 24/7. Then I usually decide to stay safe and stick with another kelpie. They may not be perfect but I know them well enough by now to know what to expect from certain lines etc.

Re Ned I think I'm probably hard on him because Noggin's now more of a pet for my son than a working dog (because of his accident) so Ned's effectively become an only dog who happens to live with another dog who goes out with him twice a day for a bit of exercise. People are always complimenting me re his behaviour and character and tractability but I keep focusing on his negatives. Poor sod, maybe I should cut him some slack. Rusty's boots were big boots to fill.

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12 minutes ago, Neal said:

To be honest, every now and then I consider whether to try something different, usually along the lines of a small whippet x gundog or whippet x sheepdog, but then I remember the fact that I've got to actually live with the dog 24/7. Then I usually decide to stay safe and stick with another kelpie. They may not be perfect but I know them well enough by now to know what to expect from certain lines etc.

Re Ned I think I'm probably hard on him because Noggin's now more of a pet for my son than a working dog (because of his accident) so Ned's effectively become an only dog who happens to live with another dog who goes out with him twice a day for a bit of exercise. People are always complimenting me re his behaviour and character and tractability but I keep focusing on his negatives. Poor sod, maybe I should cut him some slack. Rusty's boots were big boots to fill.

No, I totally understand....they were my exact thoughts before I got spaniel x lurcher. Mine live inside and I’ve owned a couple of jrt before and I had one  that drove me nuts as much as I loved her and I was sceptical that the liveliness of some spaniels might be a tad too much for my temperament. I couldn’t have been more wrong, honestly such loving temperaments and very calm when in the house...very easy to train, although I only use two commands, heel and recall. It still baffles me how few gun dogs are used in lurcher breeding they add a lot to mooching dogs. To be fair I’m not too bothered about speed or catching a lot, I’m more into the dog finding and have a little chase....love to watch the dogs hunt.  

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I'm definitely not overly worried about not catching...I've got sheepdogs after all!😁

I only use six commands: recall, lay down, sshhh, quiet, shut up and shut the **** up to annoying ******* Ned!

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3 hours ago, Shortstraw said:

No, I totally understand....they were my exact thoughts before I got spaniel x lurcher. Mine live inside and I’ve owned a couple of jrt before and I had one  that drove me nuts as much as I loved her and I was sceptical that the liveliness of some spaniels might be a tad too much for my temperament. I couldn’t have been more wrong, honestly such loving temperaments and very calm when in the house...very easy to train, although I only use two commands, heel and recall. It still baffles me how few gun dogs are used in lurcher breeding they add a lot to mooching dogs. To be fair I’m not too bothered about speed or catching a lot, I’m more into the dog finding and have a little chase....love to watch the dogs hunt.  

My father always said that a Springer Spaniel x Greyhound was the best dog for Ferreting & trapping. Trying to find this X is a different matter, I have been looking for one for years. 

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8 minutes ago, Chunky11 said:

My father always said that a Springer Spaniel x Greyhound was the best dog for Ferreting & trapping. Trying to find this X is a different matter, I have been looking for one for years. 

Best bet for finding a dog like this is searching through the general big dog for sale websites or preloved  etc. Most are accidental matings, mine was, but I was lucky in that the owner of the spaniel dam was a game keeper who also  owned the lurcher sire. My mom nearly bought a cocker x whippet which also was on a general website. The other place I saw one advertised was a local pet store.....it was another accidental mating between a fellas cocker spaniel and saluki/ greyhound.

To be fair I couldn’t give a stuff if the dam had been a pet spaniel and the sire a pet sighthound, the offspring would still hunt more instinctively than most lurchers you see for sale.

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16 hours ago, Shortstraw said:

Best bet for finding a dog like this is searching through the general big dog for sale websites or preloved  etc. Most are accidental matings, mine was, but I was lucky in that the owner of the spaniel dam was a game keeper who also  owned the lurcher sire. My mom nearly bought a cocker x whippet which also was on a general website. The other place I saw one advertised was a local pet store.....it was another accidental mating between a fellas cocker spaniel and saluki/ greyhound.

To be fair I couldn’t give a stuff if the dam had been a pet spaniel and the sire a pet sighthound, the offspring would still hunt more instinctively than most lurchers you see for sale.

Actually, all this talk of gundog crosses has jogged my memory: when I moved from Cumbria back to Hampshire I was "between dogs" for a while and, before I bought my collie x whippet, I went to see a litter of first cross labrador x greyhounds. I didn't come away with one simply because the dam was a greyhound and, when I asked about the sire, the owner admitted sheepishly that the sire lived locally but that the owners of the sire were unaware of the mating. I couldn't really be sure if what I was getting was therefore what I was paying for so decided to leave it, but I've often wondered how they turned out.

Anyway...sorry for the brief sojourn...back to Jigsaw's excellent kelpie x greyhounds! More photos please. Incidentally, I've not posted photos on here for ages as it always took me ages to get the hang of it. Do you still have to do it through photobucket or can you do it in other ways now e.g. saving a photo to my desktop etc and uploading it, then I could put some up of Noggin and Ned if you're interested in the ugly sods.

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52 minutes ago, Neal said:

Actually, all this talk of gundog crosses has jogged my memory: when I moved from Cumbria back to Hampshire I was "between dogs" for a while and, before I bought my collie x whippet, I went to see a litter of first cross labrador x greyhounds. I didn't come away with one simply because the dam was a greyhound and, when I asked about the sire, the owner admitted sheepishly that the sire lived locally but that the owners of the sire were unaware of the mating. I couldn't really be sure if what I was getting was therefore what I was paying for so decided to leave it, but I've often wondered how they turned out.

Anyway...sorry for the brief sojourn...back to Jigsaw's excellent kelpie x greyhounds! More photos please. Incidentally, I've not posted photos on here for ages as it always took me ages to get the hang of it. Do you still have to do it through photobucket or can you do it in other ways now e.g. saving a photo to my desktop etc and uploading it, then I could put some up of Noggin and Ned if you're interested in the ugly sods.

No photo bucket reqd, click on reply then click "choose files" bottom left for new pics, or use "insert other media"  then "existing attachment" on bottom right for stuff you've previously used.

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