Fury v wilder

[Astanley 11,472]

I think that although Ali did rely and excel because of his natural gifts ,speed ,reflexs ,athleticism etc ...he also had an almost flawless technique to fall back on ...a technique that can only come from a long long apprenticeship in the ring ,an automatic ,unthinking call back when the going gets tough , when natural gifts aren't enough .you saw this more and more as he got older and less mobile ,lost speed ...other heavyweights who are relying on their natural assets don't have this to fall back on ,so although fury won't get any shorter or less awkward ,his mobility will wane and with it his ability to stay out of tro uble at all costs .if he wasn't the size of a baby giraffe .he wouldn't be in with a shout .

 

 

[gnasher16 29,664]

10 minutes ago, Billy b said:

No problem, yeah I understand that about weight limit at heavy mate,being in cracking shape & being strong & fit will see you potentially go all the way,I don't want people to think I dont respect wilder when I say s**t,as weird as that soundsAs I respect all men who get into the ring from the lowest level to the highest,I'm more on about his technique,footwork & fundamentals,

i rate Tyson fury,and would agree he uses his size very well,which is a great way to apply yourself really,using what you've got to the best of your advantage,and it is all relative to the weight isn't it,he'd definitely have a task on his hands against the boys at middle

heart & gameness is definitely put more to the test in a gruelling fight from the first bell than it is from a one shot knocdown,I just mean mentally he couldlve thrown it away at that point & just gone through the motions,he does have good recuperation skills & instinct which was shown in the Cunningham fight 

just some fighters may have jacked at that point,not all, but some 

I  dont think theres any fighters out there who do this shit for a living that would turn it in after 1 knockdown,particularly in a fight they are winning.....all fighters have ( or should have ) the instinct to get up after a knockdown.....the real crunch time comes when you have to make a decision.....but everything else yes i make you right,nice talking to you squire 

[shaaark 10,137]

1 hour ago, gnasher16 said:

I cant be doing with all the  " will they fight wont they fight tv deal this box office marketting that "  it bores the living shit out of me so ive flicked through most of the posts but actual fighting and fighters interests me so apologies if it looks like im aiming for you mate but these couple of points you made caught my eye....you say Wilder is " shit " and i get what your saying but its how the sport is in a division that has no size limit you can get to the very top of the sport with very little ability....as long as your a pretty strong athletic guy with a good competetive attitude size can take you the rest of the way....that couldnt happen in any other weight division but heavyweight.

Regards Fury being shit i dont think he is i think he has pretty decent talent and ability probably just under domestic title level.......taking his size away and putting his boxing ability,power and chin in the middleweight division for example he would get pummelled by a Callum Smith and totally outboxed by a James Degale......its his physicality that has got him where he is....and good luck to him use what you have.....regarding his fighting heart we havent seen any yet....to get up from a shot like that is not fighting heart its pure instinct....his powers of recovery were phenomenal and testament to his conditioning but fighting heart is not proven with a 1 punch knockdown its proven with a systematic beating where you have to think and make decisions.....i actually think he was very lucky to get through that round most referees when a fighter gets flatlined like that dont even bother to count they just wave it off.

Gnash, you referred to callum smith and james degale. I said  to max on here a while back, that if thomas hearns caught fury flush on the chin with one of his blistering right hands,  he'd knock fury out. What are your thoughts on that?

[MickC 1,825]

29 minutes ago, Astanley said:

I think that although Ali did rely and excel because of his natural gifts ,speed ,reflexs ,athleticism etc ...he also had an almost flawless technique to fall back on ...a technique that can only come from a long long apprenticeship in the ring ,an automatic ,unthinking call back when the going gets tough , when natural gifts aren't enough .you saw this more and more as he got older and less mobile ,lost speed ...other heavyweights who are relying on their natural assets don't have this to fall back on ,so although fury won't get any shorter or less awkward ,his mobility will wane and with it his ability to stay out of tro uble at all costs .if he wasn't the size of a baby giraffe .he wouldn't be in with a shout .

 

 

Ali along with his  skill set and finding a way to win Ali also made great use of his height and reach, it was mentioned in a thread on an American forum about him after his death that he only lost to one fighter under 6' 1" and also the only fighter with a shorter reach than Ali that beat him (JF) Iirc

Edited February 27, 2019 by MickC

[Billy b 724]

10 minutes ago, gnasher16 said:

I  dont think theres any fighters out there who do this shit for a living that would turn it in after 1 knockdown,particularly in a fight they are winning.....all fighters have ( or should have ) the instinct to get up after a knockdown.....the real crunch time comes when you have to make a decision.....but everything else yes i make you right,nice talking to you squire 

Any particular up n comers you rate at the minute?

[shaaark 10,137]

5 minutes ago, MickC said:

Ali along with his  skill set and finding a way to win Ali also made great use of his height and reach, it was mentioned in a thread on an American forum about him after his death that he only lost to one fighter under 6' 1". (JF) Iirc

Along with his skill etc, let's not forget he had one of the best chins in boxing. Something which, never mind how tall, awkward etc etc he is, fury DOESN'T have

[gnasher16 29,664]

26 minutes ago, Astanley said:

I think that although Ali did rely and excel because of his natural gifts ,speed ,reflexs ,athleticism etc ...he also had an almost flawless technique to fall back on ...a technique that can only come from a long long apprenticeship in the ring ,an automatic ,unthinking call back when the going gets tough , when natural gifts aren't enough .you saw this more and more as he got older and less mobile ,lost speed ...other heavyweights who are relying on their natural assets don't have this to fall back on ,so although fury won't get any shorter or less awkward ,his mobility will wane and with it his ability to stay out of tro uble at all costs .if he wasn't the size of a baby giraffe .he wouldn't be in with a shout .

 

 

For me its why Ali became probably the greatest heavyweight in history.....the fact he had a flawless technique that he rarely used.

[MickC 1,825]

5 minutes ago, shaaark said:

Along with his skill etc, let's not forget he had one of the best chins in boxing. Something which, never mind how tall, awkward etc etc he is, fury DOESN'T have

Ali also fought in arguably the most talent stacked era in Heavyweight Boxing,I disagree that Fury has a poor chin though,as already mentioned his recovery powers are up there with Ali and Holmes .

[gnasher16 29,664]

13 minutes ago, shaaark said:

Gnash, you referred to callum smith and james degale. I said  to max on here a while back, that if thomas hearns caught fury flush on the chin with one of his blistering right hands,  he'd knock fury out. What are your thoughts on that?

They are pro boxers mate id expect Luke Campbell to be able to knock any heavyweight in the world out if given an unprotected free shot.

[MickC 1,825]

6 minutes ago, gnasher16 said:

For me its why Ali became probably the greatest heavyweight in history.....the fact he had a flawless technique that he rarely used.

That's another story for another thread though Gnash,not everyone rates Ali as the greatest Heavyweight in history. Johnson and Louis are both in with a shout of that honour as well .

Edited February 27, 2019 by MickC

[shaaark 10,137]

3 minutes ago, MickC said:

Ali also fought in arguably the most talent stacked era in Heavyweight Boxing,I disagree that Fury has a poor chin though,as already mentioned his recovery powers are up there with Ali and Holmes .

Disagreement is fine, it's what keeps forums like this going.

It's having someone's opinion forced down everyone else's throats that piss people off

Edited February 27, 2019 by shaaark

[shaaark 10,137]

1 hour ago, gnasher16 said:

The funniest thing about people giving big strong opinions on stuff they have little knowledge and no experience of is the fact they dont know that they are saying funny stuff !

I used to get a few chaps on here have a pop at me for not talking about hunting very much but i dont kid myself i dont have much knowledge or experience which is why i dont give out opinions on it....if i did give my naive opinions people might be polite and not say anything but they would secretly be pissing themself laughing.

Hence the mere phrase " most technical since Ali "......is in itself hilarious ....Ali was possibly the least technical heavyweight champion there has ever been !!.....he had amazing abilities but none of them would be found anywhere in a boxing textbook......the hands held low,the dancing feet,the dependance on lightning reflexes,the holding...none of them are techniques you would be taught......Fury himself is technically poor but his unorthodox movement and amateur style point scoring at nearly 7 feet tall makes him very difficult to beat.....none of these top heavyweights are good technicians.

Re the dog situation for a moment. You decided on what to get yet gnash?

[NEWKID 26,211]

1 hour ago, Astanley said:

I think that although Ali did rely and excel because of his natural gifts ,speed ,reflexs ,athleticism etc ...he also had an almost flawless technique to fall back on ...a technique that can only come from a long long apprenticeship in the ring ,an automatic ,unthinking call back when the going gets tough , when natural gifts aren't enough .you saw this more and more as he got older and less mobile ,lost speed ...other heavyweights who are relying on their natural assets don't have this to fall back on ,so although fury won't get any shorter or less awkward ,his mobility will wane and with it his ability to stay out of tro uble at all costs .if he wasn't the size of a baby giraffe .he wouldn't be in with a shout .

 

 

Great shout on Ali, he certainly had pretty much every attribute you would want and changed it up fight to fight...

 

Regards Fury, He also lacks power, his style of throwing punches without planting his feet and just point scoring will catch up with him when his mobility goes imo...

As said loads on here by most people, he's not a great boxer, he's a big awkward f****r that would irritate the shit out of you inside and outside the ring lol

Edited February 27, 2019 by NEWKID

[South hams hunter 8,837]

7 hours ago, MickC said:

South hams hunter

Stripped for bottling what ?

What real fights has he dodged ?

When he beat Wlad he was contractually signed to rematch Wlad so his hands were tied as regards to defending the IBF belt. Glazkov was the mandatory for the IBF belt so Hearn and others jumped straight in lobbying the IBF to strip Fury of the belt and he was stripped a few days after winning the belt. Glazkov lost to Martin for vacant IBF belt and then Joshua beat Martin after Hearn offered Martin a deal he could not refuse. (Over 19 time his highest previous purse) Fury returned had two warm up fights then fought Wilder the WBC champion. As for the licence removal it was a very strange affair,Fury had higher than normal Nando levels after the Hammer fight in February and was told by the testing agency that his Nando levels were getting high but within limits and to watch his diet etc.So why was he not busted at the time ? Instead the agency let him fight again 9 months later which was the Wlad fight and tested him more regular than normal and they where all fine. They only went after him when he chased off the drug testers just before the second fight with Wlad was cancelled and then when they did test him he was popped for cocaine not a ped. Why was the result from the Hammer fight not changed to a no contest and the original result allowed to stand ? The whole situation is certainly strange .

His mandatory and done his best to avoid aj and wilder rematch

[Billy b 724]

The fights will happen

Its just a case of "when"