Trump Under Fire

[green lurchers 16,369]

When your ripping up the pattern and starting again don't expect get it right on your first attempt. ..that's how I see trump he's a stepping stone in the right direction but by no means a finished product he's just the prototype...it doesn't matter how spectacular trump fails it won't change the fact the people are wanting change.

yep

[ChrisJones 7,973]

it doesn't matter how spectacular trump fails it won't change the fact the people are wanting change.

 

Agreed, mate, but I'd take Mattis or McMaster over him any day.

 

If he fails that spectacularly they might get someone like Bernie Sanders.

Edited August 19, 2017 by ChrisJones

[WILF 44,325]

Kanny, I think that sums things up perfectly imho and I also agree with Chris last post.

 

Myself, I'm just enjoying watching the chaos and the insuing bun fight......the wasp nest needed a good poke and by goodness old Donald J is doing it on a global scale.

[BGD 6,385]

Bannon: 'The Trump Presidency We Fought For, and Won, Is Over'

 

With the departure from the White House of strategist Stephen K. Bannon, who helped shape the so-called nationalist-populist program embraced by Donald Trump in his unlikely path to election, a new phase of the Trump presidency begins. Given Trumps nature, what comes next will hardly be conventional, but it may well be less willfully disruptivewhich, to Bannon, had been the point of winning the White House.

 

The Trump presidency that we fought for, and won, is over, Bannon said Friday, shortly after confirming his departure. We still have a huge movement, and we will make something of this Trump presidency. But that presidency is over. Itll be something else. And therell be all kinds of fights, and therell be good days and bad days, but that presidency is over.

 

Bannon says that he once confidently believed in the prospect of success for that version of the Trump presidency he now says is over. Asked what the turning point was, he says, Its the Republican establishment. The Republican establishment has no interest in Trumps success on this. Theyre not populists, theyre not nationalists, they had no interest in his program. Zero. It was a half-hearted attempt at Obamacare reform, it was no interest really on the infrastructure, theyll do a very standard Republican version of taxes.

 

What Trump ran on border wall, where is the funding for the border wall, one of his central tenets, where have they been? Have they rallied around the Perdue-Cotton immigration bill [legislation proposed by Republican Senators David Perdue and Tom Cotton that would revamp the system of legal immigration, favoring immigrants with education, skills and English proficiency. On what element of Trumps program, besides tax cuts which is going to be the standard marginal tax cut where have they rallied to Trumps cause? They havent.

http://www.weeklystandard.com/bannon-the-trump-presidency-that-we-fought-for-and-won-is-over./article/2009355

[neems 2,406]

 

Oh they dont care about any of that chris. As long as he hates on muslims everything else is irrelevant. Hes a liar, a fraud and the most un presidential person ever!

 

makes a mockery of the very office he holds and there is nothing not even the saddest tragedy he won't use to score points. Its cringeworthy watching all those yes men he surrounds himself with look utterly horrified by some of his statements, but continue to defend him. Respect to the ones who quit or refused to work for him.

 

oh and before any of the pro trump start. Im no f***ing leftie! Just a man who can see what an absolute horror of a human being trump is!

 

I get that, mate, I just don't understand the balls out admiration for the bloke. I gave him a blank slate when he got in. He's had 8 months of opportunities to start what he promised... All he's done so far is play golf and roll back environmental protections. Clocks ticking if he wants to do right by the office and not just his interests.

 

How did they 'arrange to fight each other'?

 

One group showed up as they often do to attack a demonstration,the demonstrators prepared for that scenario,are you saying people should just be cowed by violent activists/terrorists and not exercise their right to assemble or right free speech?

 

Because I've read a lot of left leaning news articles making that argument,and it won't lead anywhere good for America.

 

He condemned the driver and praised the woman and her family in no uncertain terms,he just refused to condemn all of the protesters who were attacked for expressing their rights as Americans.

 

There is a clear difference,the murderer can be lumped in with all those 'counter protesters' who showed up to attack demonstrators.

The demonstrators who went equipped to defend themselves are not infringing others rights or initiating any violence.

 

To blame them is to use the same argument as people who'd say the woman in the short skirt deserved to be raped.

 

Seriously mate? You think these people just happen to arrive in the same place and kick off?

 

How on earth do you draw the conclusion that I think people should be cowed into terror, and not exercise their rights?! I've been pretty much pro-rights since day one. The THL record will support that! If people wish to freely assemble I have no issue with it at all. I have no issue with an armed citizenry. I have no issue with the first amendment and I've actually agreed with you on Don's point but used my first amendment rights to say that his timing, his tact, and his terminology are not fitting of the office he represents and I'm not in the minority. I also see the irony of two groups of minorities using the US constitution to promote a system of rule where none of these rights would be granted by the victors. Left, or right.

 

The murderer can be lumped in with the rest of these dicks who use terror tactics to further their ideals. A fringe element, of a fringe element that is struggling to maintain any kind of relevance in 2017. Those initiating violence should be dealt with harshly, and punitively, and you yourself could take a leaf from Don's book and condemn the violence on both sides. These minorities turned up for a scrap and they got one, shame they're all so blinded by rage that someone had to die, wouldn't you agree?

 

 

 

 

 

No i don't think it was a coincidence at all,where did you get that from?

 

Group one staged a controversial protest,as they have every right to,group two shows up and attacks group one.

But group one is to blame because *insert buzzword*.

 

This is the line a lot of the mainstream press are adopting and i don't see how you differ in principle other than you give some responsibility to the attackers as well as the attacked.

'unite the right' had every right to attend the rally and every right to fight back when attacked,so what did they do wrong?

You're condemning them for what exactly?

Expressing a controversial opinion?

fighting back when attacked?

 

What puts them on the same level as the terrorists who attacked their rally in an effort to silence them,as they have done countless times all over the world before?

I do condemn the token alt-right terrorist,the one who ran over those communists has done untold damage to his own side.

 

This is called holding people to their own standards,and requesting consistency,I can assure you had a right wing counter protested a left wing demo and attacked them with everything from bare hands and bats to acid,there'd be a very different narrative being pursued now.

 

No-one would be suggesting 'their both as bad as each other'.

[ChrisJones 7,973]

No i don't think it was a coincidence at all,where did you get that from?

 

Mate! You've just called me out for asking how they arrange to fight each other! It's kind of a given that they show up and get stuck into each other! It's like saying a cat has an arse! The right fight the left.... and?!

 

Group one staged a controversial protest,as they have every right to,group two shows up and attacks group one.

But group one is to blame because *insert buzzword*.

 

Again we're not disputing this. We know why they were there. We know that both the first and second amendment was in place. I've never stated that group one is to blame because of *insert buzzword* I've stated that both groups are deluded minorities that contain a smaller group of violent deluded minorities. I've already stated that I had no issue with their assembly. I had no issue with their protest. No issue with their rights, voices, a show of force... etc. I'm allowed to do that. As are you and everyone else.

 

My issue is about comments from a world leader who isn't fit for purpose.

 

This is the line a lot of the mainstream press are adopting and i don't see how you differ in principle other than you give some responsibility to the attackers as well as the attacked.

'unite the right' had every right to attend the rally and every right to fight back when attacked,so what did they do wrong?

 

You're condemning them for what exactly?

 

Expressing a controversial opinion?

fighting back when attacked?

 

I'm condemning this exclusively...

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFR-iHmTWVo

 

I don't think any normal thinking family man could look at that clip and say it's okay to do that. Politics aside that is a disgusting display of personal morals. F*ck that guy.

 

As far as expressing opinions, and championing an idea, I'm all for it. I always have been. The record is very clear, on THL, where I stand on individual freedoms. Anyone reading this thread, whether they agree with me, or don't, will [i hope] at least agree that I'm consistent with my opinions on individual liberty.

 

Their opinions aren't controversial from where I am. They're not extreme. They're not triggering. They're absolutely part of what I see on a daily basis, I simply disagree with them. As I have every right to. Again I've agreed with you on numerous occasions regarding this subject. I have no issue with the demonstration. I have no issue with the counter demonstration. I've stated a few times now that I agree with Donnie on his comments, but I feel that he chose the absolute wrong time to express his constitutionally protected opinion, and I'm still not in the minority...

 

What puts them on the same level as the terrorists who attacked their rally in an effort to silence them,as they have done countless times all over the world before?

I do condemn the token alt-right terrorist,the one who ran over those communists has done untold damage to his own side.

 

This is called holding people to their own standards,and requesting consistency,I can assure you had a right wing counter protested a left wing demo and attacked them with everything from bare hands and bats to acid,there'd be a very different narrative being pursued now.

 

No-one would be suggesting 'their both as bad as each other'.

 

Again, sir, I'm agreeing with you!

 

If you wish to peacefully assemble and argue your corner I will stand and defend your ability to do so. Seriously. I've done that, and will gladly step up and do it again. I've worked a detail that protected demonstrators, from counter-demonstrators. I hated everything they spouted but the constitution is above personal politics. Regardless of what I personally feel, I will not only respect your first amendment right, I'll defend it! A position which I know you wouldn't uphold if our roles were reversed but that's how seriously I view personal liberty.

 

But f**k this guy...

 

 

That's why everyone suddenly picked this up...

 

What I don't condone is a collection of angry minority idiots using every possible opportunity to disturb the peace and get stuck into each other at every step of the way. Especially when it's resulting in death and serious injury. Spout as much shit as you want but the second you get physical you lose any credibility you might have in the peaceful majority of society. That much I know you understand and if any of these groups wish to gain serious consideration they understand that too. The fact that you have a tangerine ballbag nodding and saying "Well They Started It" simply shows that the guy is so far out of his depth that he's on the verge of universal condemnation! The vast majority of people, at the very least, have said "Hang on a minute, Don..." and then he doubles down.

 

I get that you like this guy. I get that he's a THL favourite, but FFS smell the coffee!

Edited August 20, 2017 by ChrisJones

[neems 2,406]

Because it wasn't an arranged fight!

 

It was an arranged demo that the protesters knew was likely to get attacked,surely if people were being consistent they'd say 'I don't agree with the message,but good for them for braving the consequences and exercising their right to free speech',wouldn't they?

 

So when we condemn these 'violent minorities' we're actually condemning a minority of 1 on unite the right?

Absolutely fine,it's a bit rich expecting the people who've just been having acid thrown at them by the victims mates to condemn him but no-ones going to defend him.

 

As far as I can see Trump's addressed these 2 issues separately,the terrorist attack and demonstration,which is perfectly acceptable because that incident is not reflective of this march or others like it.

 

Some people talk about Trump 'dog whistling',that must be true because I heard what he said loud and clear,that is the violent left no longer has carte blanche to act like terrorists,they'll be held responsible for their actions more from now.

 

This is what upset a lot of the media and even our beloved prime minister doesn't seem thrilled about this revelation.

 

[scothunter 12,609]

f***ing hell thats the first time i seen that vid chris.

 

What a c**t!

[kanny 19,389]

another angle.

[scothunter 12,609]

Is this the new trend run folk over in cars! This planet is a f***ing disgrace!

[ChrisJones 7,973]

Because it wasn't an arranged fight!

 

It was an arranged demo that the protesters knew was likely to get attacked,surely if people were being consistent they'd say 'I don't agree with the message,but good for them for braving the consequences and exercising their right to free speech',wouldn't they?

I've just spent a couple of posts saying just that!

 

It is an arranged fight, mate. You can't say "Well both sides turned up armed, purely to defend themselves in case *insert buzzword here* attacks first" without insulting the intelligence of everyone that has followed this over the last few years.

 

This demonstration went off without much incident for what I have read so far. Why can't those clowns be like them?

 

So when we condemn these 'violent minorities' we're actually condemning a minority of 1 on unite the right?

Absolutely fine,it's a bit rich expecting the people who've just been having acid thrown at them by the victims mates to condemn him but no-ones going to defend him.

 

As far as I can see Trump's addressed these 2 issues separately,the terrorist attack and demonstration,which is perfectly acceptable because that incident is not reflective of this march or others like it.

 

Some people talk about Trump 'dog whistling',that must be true because I heard what he said loud and clear,that is the violent left no longer has carte blanche to act like terrorists,they'll be held responsible for their actions more from now.

 

This is what upset a lot of the media and even our beloved prime minister doesn't seem thrilled about this revelation.

 

 

I'll conlude here... I don't know how else to say the same thing, repeatedly, without wasting everybody's time on this, so I'll just refer you back to the last couple of pages.

 

Everyone has the right to assemble. No one has the right to turn that assembly into a battle ground. Understand?

 

Don't give a f**k about your politics keep your dogs on chains. Left, right, centrist doesn't matter. Your minority, their minority are having the normal people turn against them.

 

We want you to stop beating people up. Seriously. Quit that shit and you can wave your flags in peace.

[ChrisJones 7,973]

f***ing hell thats the first time i seen that vid chris.

 

What a c**t!

 

Disgusting isn't it.

 

This is what some sections of the American community are trying to defend, based on provocation.

 

To put this into context they're protesting a decision to remove a statute. It was a decision that was democratically agreed upon, by the people of Charlottesville.

 

The statue wasn't put up in the late 1800's to commemorate the civil war, it was erected in 1924 which was 59 years after the war ended. Commissioned using Klan funding as a monument to white supremacy. This isn't so much erasing the history of the civil war, as certain groups will tell you. It's about removing the stain of "Jim Crow". It's hardly Orwellian, more common f***ing decency.

 

The other irony here, is that Spencer and Co demonstrated there in May without incident. Believe it or not, there is a massive majority of people, in the US, that don't want to see a return this. Although you won't hear much about the demo because they peacefully assembled and refrained from kicking off.

Edited August 20, 2017 by ChrisJones

[ChrisJones 7,973]

Press release from Sons Of Confederate Veterans. Paragraph 2, especially but with a nod to the final paragraph too.

Edited August 20, 2017 by ChrisJones

[neems 2,406]

 

Because it wasn't an arranged fight!

 

It was an arranged demo that the protesters knew was likely to get attacked,surely if people were being consistent they'd say 'I don't agree with the message,but good for them for braving the consequences and exercising their right to free speech',wouldn't they?

I've just spent a couple of posts saying just that!

 

It is an arranged fight, mate. You can't say "Well both sides turned up armed, purely to defend themselves in case *insert buzzword here* attacks first" without insulting the intelligence of everyone that has followed this over the last few years.

 

This demonstration went off without much incident for what I have read so far. Why can't those clowns be like them?

I'll conlude here... I don't know how else to say the same thing, repeatedly, without wasting everybody's time on this, so I'll just refer you back to the last couple of pages.

 

Everyone has the right to assemble. No one has the right to turn that assembly into a battle ground. Understand?

 

Don't give a f**k about your politics keep your dogs on chains. Left, right, centrist doesn't matter. Your minority, their minority are having the normal people turn against them.

 

We want you to stop beating people up. Seriously. Quit that shit and you can wave your flags in peace.

 

 

 

 

The far left make absolutely no bones about wanting to initiate political violence against whoever they've decided are their enemies.

It's what they're all about!

 

It's not a one off or a coincidence that they once again turned up and initiated the violence in this case,this has been happening all over the west for a long time now.

It's so predictable it's become monotonous,the right protest the left attack them with virtual impunity and certainly no condemnation from the top.

In fact as we've seen here,very often the group that's been attacked is the one to be condemned.

 

You may not have noticed this trend,which is perhaps why it's not making sense to you,but a lot have.

 

I don't know if Trump has or if he's just being objective,but either way if he can make headway in this area before his time's up it'll be a massive step forward for everyone except the terrorists and those who pay them.

[ChrisJones 7,973]