Trump Under Fire

[WILF 44,330]

 

f***ing hell thats the first time i seen that vid chris.What a c**t!

Disgusting isn't it. This is what some sections of the American community are trying to defend, based on provocation. To put this into context they're protesting a decision to remove a statute. It was a decision that was democratically agreed upon, by the people of Charlottesville. The statue wasn't put up in the late 1800's to commemorate the civil war, it was erected in 1924 which was 59 years after the war ended. Commissioned using Klan funding as a monument to white supremacy. This isn't so much erasing the history of the civil war, as certain groups will tell you. It's about removing the stain of "Jim Crow". It's hardly Orwellian, more common f***ing decency. The other irony here, is that Spencer and Co demonstrated there in May without incident. Believe it or not, there is a massive majority of people, in the US, that don't want to see a return this. Although you won't hear much about the demo because they peacefully assembled and refrained from kicking off.

I think you are all missing the point with this statue.......the point is not if it's right or decent to have it there.......the point is that somebody in government had the very sinister thought that they could erase this particular tiny bit of history by tearing it down.

A bit like Mien Kampf being banned in certain countries, we all know it's the ramblings of an ordinary Joe Soap and not exactly a literary master work but it's out there and folk should be free to read it and make up their own mind.......because when politicians start choosing what you can and can't look at or read becomes the norm then we are at a very dangerous place.

 

What did a black deputy mayor in the south think the reaction was going to be to him proposing to remove that statue?........to me it shows the bloke is working to his own agenda and not making due consideration to the wider implications to his community.

Like most things in life, if you didn't have some selfish prick stirring the pot then folk would not even give it a second thought and life would go on........and that girl would still be alive.

 

Let people like and dislike, love and hate who they want for whatever reason they want without intervention from government and the world would be a lot more of a relaxed place inmo

 

However Charlottesville was a perfect example of how nobody is going to let Trump win......when he commented about "violence in both sides...." he was vilified and lambasted by just about every body when in fact that is a perfectly reasonable and logical thing to say........but I guess reason and logic don't matter because it's Trump.

Edited September 4, 2017 by WILF

[VOON 1,313]

 

 

f***ing hell thats the first time i seen that vid chris.What a c**t!

Disgusting isn't it. This is what some sections of the American community are trying to defend, based on provocation. To put this into context they're protesting a decision to remove a statute. It was a decision that was democratically agreed upon, by the people of Charlottesville. The statue wasn't put up in the late 1800's to commemorate the civil war, it was erected in 1924 which was 59 years after the war ended. Commissioned using Klan funding as a monument to white supremacy. This isn't so much erasing the history of the civil war, as certain groups will tell you. It's about removing the stain of "Jim Crow". It's hardly Orwellian, more common f***ing decency. The other irony here, is that Spencer and Co demonstrated there in May without incident. Believe it or not, there is a massive majority of people, in the US, that don't want to see a return this. Although you won't hear much about the demo because they peacefully assembled and refrained from kicking off.

I think you are all missing the point with this statue.......the point is not if it's right or decent to have it there.......the point is that somebody in government had the very sinister thought that they could erase this particular tiny bit of history by tearing it down.

A bit like Mien Kampf being banned in certain countries, we all know it's the ramblings of an ordinary Joe Soap and not exactly a literary master work but it's out there and folk should be free to read it and make up their own mind.......because when politicians start choosing what you can and can't look at or read becomes the norm then we are at a very dangerous place.

What did a black deputy mayor in the south think the reaction was going to be to him proposing to remove that statue?........to me it shows the bloke is working to his own agenda and not making due consideration to the wider implications to his community.

Like most things in life, if you didn't have some selfish prick stirring the pot then folk would not even give it a second thought and life would go on........and that girl would still be alive.

Let people like and dislike, love and hate who they want for whatever reason they want without intervention from government and the world would be a lot more of a relaxed place inmo

However Charlottesville was a perfect example of how nobody is going to let Trump win......when he commented about "violence in both sides...." he was vilified and lambasted by just about every body when in fact that is a perfectly reasonable and logical thing to say........but I guess reason and logic don't matter because it's Trump.

Trump sets himself up for the grief with his demeanour and attitude, he courts it.....

 

He's divided America, the World even, so no matter he does, he's going piss one side off.

 

Trying to change history to suit the world of today, is a little bit ott.....read somewhere there trying to get rid of Nelson's and Rhodes statues....bit silly, learn from the past....what's next? Erase Churchill from history??

[THE STIFFMEISTER 14,558]

One of the main protesters of the anti Rhodes movement in oxford university is therecon the rhodes scholarship scheme...

 

You can't make it up

[THE STIFFMEISTER 14,558]

I don't think trying to erase history is going too far at all, look what at the disgrace that occurred in Rhodesia caused in part by the uk govt at the time .

 

One of Africa's most advanced countries turned into a f***ing cesspit in a generation by handing it back to the f***ing terrs

 

The first thing the real Africans did was do away with free schooling which was the Afrikaans greatest achievement. Scum bags

 

We can rewrite history, we can learn from it and it only ever looks increasingly likely that the people so beloved for Hollywood villainy, the Afrikaans and the Balkan warlords , were light years ahead of their time

[WILF 44,330]

What they were back then my brother was realistic......they were plain thinking enough to see the differences between people and work with them (and yes, exploit them too) but it worked.

 

Now days it's like when you see these fur baby type people letting dogs climb all over the house......after a while, when you tell the mutt to get off the sofa it will growl at you because it's got to thinking its the same as you

[WILF 44,330]

Obama divided the United States himself, he had a chance to say "hey, look I am the most powerful man in the world and I'm black so stop whining and get the f**k on with it.......if I can do it then anyone can" but he didn't !

He actively played things along racial lines in order to maintain a voter base.......yet another politician thinking of self first and country second !

 

A black man becomes the most powerful man on the planet.........no tearing down of statues required

[ChrisJones 7,973]

I think you are all missing the point with this statue.......the point is not if it's right or decent to have it there.......the point is that somebody in government had the very sinister thought that they could erase this particular tiny bit of history by tearing it down.

I'd tend to agree with you if this was a war memorial, but it isn't. It's a klan funded homage to white supremacy. The whole "Let's Own People, As Property" thing is still a pretty big issue here in the colonies. The civil rights act was only passed in 1964. Let's not forget this isn't a local government quietly getting rid of things based on perceived political correctness, this has been a decade long democratic process from the people. At the risk of invoking Godwin's law, it's viewed in a similar way to not displaying nazi symbols in Germany.

 

I don't know of anyone this side of the pond personally, that would disagree with it being moved and displayed in context but it's being displayed in a public park and maintained by public funds. If they want to keep it they [klan] should pony up and build a museum to it.

 

A bit like Mien Kampf being banned in certain countries, we all know it's the ramblings of an ordinary Joe Soap and not exactly a literary master work but it's out there and folk should be free to read it and make up their own mind.......because when politicians start choosing what you can and can't look at or read becomes the norm then we are at a very dangerous place.

Again I agree. It's a shitty book and the whole world should have access to it. If nothing more than to show it for what it is. It's freely available here. It's out of copyright and downloadable from any of the sites that handle such material. Banning it certainly does provide it with a cult following... At least I think you spell it like that.

 

What did a black deputy mayor in the south think the reaction was going to be to him proposing to remove that statue?........to me it shows the bloke is working to his own agenda and not making due consideration to the wider implications to his community.

Again I'd agree if it hadn't gone through the public lobbying and the ensuing votes. It's still a democracy.

 

Like most things in life, if you didn't have some selfish prick stirring the pot then folk would not even give it a second thought and life would go on........and that girl would still be alive.

Can't argue with that. Politics 101. We can apply that argument to any public figure we don't like.

 

Let people like and dislike, love and hate who they want for whatever reason they want without intervention from government and the world would be a lot more of a relaxed place inmo

 

However Charlottesville was a perfect example of how nobody is going to let Trump win......when he commented about "violence in both sides...." he was vilified and lambasted by just about every body when in fact that is a perfectly reasonable and logical thing to say........but I guess reason and logic don't matter because it's Trump.

Like I said to neems earlier in the thread. I agree with him. I do think violent demonstrators on both sides were/are a huge problem. The issue wasn't the comment, IMO, it was the timing. If Donnie was blessed with reason and logic he'd have waited until the dust had settled to get stuck into the violent demonstrators but what's raised the hackles of middle America was called actual flag waving nazis 'good people' at a time when one of them had just killed one and injured 19. I'm sure many will blame the MSM for quoting him out of context etc, but if you're going to wait two days to weigh in on a hot issue you've had plenty of time to secure your lingo!

 

Again I'll refer the honourable gentlemen to comments I've made since Nov '16. I'll judge Don on his results. So far we're still in the starting blocks.

[WILF 44,330]

I think we are both looking at things in a reasonable enough manner my friend, but I will go back to the statue and my real point was it dint really matter who funded it or erected it.......I would be a fair wage that after nearly a 100 years folk were not walking through that park in their thousands and grumbling about it........least ways not until some tit brought it up and made an issue of it for whatever reason he had.

They probably never even gave it a second glance......it's exactly the same as the Hunting ban, loads of people think hunting is cruel, barbaric and a stain on our society so did that make the ban OK?

 

Not in my book because the real point for me was never about the hunting, it was always about the freedom to do a traditional thing.

 

It's exactly the same scenario any way you cut it.........one group saw the statue as a symbol to something hideous and shameful and another saw it as a symbol of their history and beleife........so who's right ?........and should one side be allowed to win or should we simply say "if you don't like it, ignore it.....no lives lost" ?

Edited September 5, 2017 by WILF

[ChrisJones 7,973]

Fair comments, my friend, but I'd retort that it's because enough people have walked past it that it's under such scrutiny.

 

The hunting ban didn't affect enough people to warrant the legislation. The main reason the african community is in the Americas is because of slavery. That symbolism is still a pretty big sword dangling over them. A monument to a time when they were hung from trees and beaten in the streets. The difference here is that most people in Britain have only ever seen a picture of a fox on their phones.

Edited September 5, 2017 by ChrisJones

[WILF 44,330]

I'm sorry mate, but I will then refer back to a black man becoming the most powerful man in the world.......there comes a time when you have to stop bleating on about things and just crack on.

You can't really cry about the current and historic situation of the poor black man in the states when one becomes president......it sort of trumps everything (no pun intended)

 

And you know, if we are really looking for an appology why are they not asking it if tribal leaders in Africa who after all are the ones that rounded them up and sold them?

 

In layman terms mate, it's bollocks for the sake of something to cry about.

[ChrisJones 7,973]

They are mate, and taking these monuments down is part of that. They're engaging in the democratic process to do so. That's how this is playing out. If the klan, and associates, are so keen on preserving their traditions they have every right to compromise and move them to another, privately funded, facility. If they want to protest it's removal, or protest the protest, providing it's done peacefully crack on.

 

I don't know anyone that has any issue with that.

[WILF 44,330]

Mate, where I live now, just over a hundred years ago the British burnt a village to the ground and shot half the inhabitants........but they all still support Chelsea and Man Unt and they all still fly out to work in England every Monday.

 

I wasn't going down the local Pizza Hut in England and luzzing a brick though the window shouting "f***ing Romans, invading my country and enslaving my people!!" .........developed people wipe their chops and move on, what's the gig with the poor old black man?......isn't becoming the most powerful being on the planet enough for them?

[ChrisJones 7,973]

I wasn't going down the local Pizza Hut in England and luzzing a brick though the window shouting "f***ing Romans, invading my country and enslaving my people!!" .........developed people wipe their chops and move on, what's the gig with the poor old black man?......isn't becoming the most powerful being on the planet enough for them?

 

 

Fair point! But as you pointed out they had their man in the top job. They're not lobbing bricks they're taking down the old institutions. This smashing shit up thing is very much a minority, as we've discussed earlier in the thread. An extreme minority of a minority. Like all people, they're working within an established system to change it for their benefit. Don's working his angle. The Republicans are working theirs. All civilised like...

[Born Hunter 17,639]

Mate, where I live now, just over a hundred years ago the British burnt a village to the ground and shot half the inhabitants........but they all still support Chelsea and Man Unt and they all still fly out to work in England every Monday.

 

So you don't reckon your Irish neighbours would want rid of a historic monument to British rule in their home town? There wouldn't be much democratic about their actions in such a situation, lol. Just blow the c**t up I'd imagine.

 

I honestly can't see the problem with this. It's just part of culture, statues and shit carry an emotional baggage, as irrational as that might be.

Edited September 5, 2017 by Born Hunter

[Born Hunter 17,639]

Doesn't seem worth starting a new thread but this UN investigation into the chemical weapons attacks in Syria is interesting.

 

http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-mideast-crisis-syria-warcrimes/syrian-government-forces-used-chemical-weapons-more-than-two-dozen-times-u-n-idUKKCN1BH19Z

 

Seems to me this information supports vindication of Trump's unilateral Tomahawk strike on the Syrian base earlier this year. It also stands in opposition to the conspiracies, largely pushed by the alt-right flavour of non interventionists, that insist the attacks are all false flags carried out by the CIA/the rebels/Mossad etc.