Bull Type Dogs

[forest of dean redneck 12,022]

 

Some greyhounds and non bullx lurchers will run to the bitter end, I think that's the trait we exaggerated into running dogs and not gameness

 

true with greyhounds, i helped at a racing kenels for 3 months, and some of the dogs just training were like feckin nutters lol on the lure.alot of greyhounds will burn them selves out, put bit of pit in there as well and there the same. had bitsa bitch whippetx gry +? was like above.!

Which probably comes from the bull blood added by lord orford,who done it as the greys were lacking back then?

[YOKEL 2,343]

 

Some greyhounds and non bullx lurchers will run to the bitter end, I think that's the trait we exaggerated into running dogs and not gameness

if gameness is only found in bulls then surely only physical differences would make a winner or loser but that is as we both know is not true so whatever it is all dogs don't posses it and if thats the case then it can not be restricted to a single breed but rather as you say a trait in particular individuals

 

it takes more than gameness to make a good match dog, infact, some of the best dogs never had their gameness fully tested because they had so many other tools in the box they had the job finished before gameness was ever brought to play. you should always breed for gameness, but when choosing a MATCH dog, it may not be the first thing you look for....discuss.

 

Yokel.

[Hot Meat 3,109]

Or the Grey's have just had a higher prey drive bred in over the years, enough drive to chase a rag

[Hot Meat 3,109]

 

 

Some greyhounds and non bullx lurchers will run to the bitter end, I think that's the trait we exaggerated into running dogs and not gameness

if gameness is only found in bulls then surely only physical differences would make a winner or loser but that is as we both know is not true so whatever it is all dogs don't posses it and if thats the case then it can not be restricted to a single breed but rather as you say a trait in particular individuals

 

it takes more than gameness to make a good match dog, infact, some of the best dogs never had their gameness fully tested because they had so many other tools in the box they had the job finished before gameness was ever brought to play. you should always breed for gameness, but when choosing a MATCH dog, it may not be the first thing you look for....discuss.

 

Yokel.

 

Even the gamest of dogs will amount to nowt without a good mouth imo

Edited November 13, 2013 by Hot Meat

[bobcullen79 1,495]

 

 

For anyone to seriously suggest that all bull breeds should be banned is just plain stupid IMO. The difference is that when a bull breed does attack, its plastered all over the media, it fits into the view of the ignorant who think that bull breeds are only kept by scum and that they are toy sized werewolves, ready to kill with a blood lust fury. I would never leave my staff alone with any child, not because I don't trust my dog, because I don't trust children. The sad fact is that some parents let their children pull, bully and harass the family pet until it finally snaps and unfortunately the parents that allow this are quite often the idiots that have staffs, because of their image.

 

My dog has been attacked by two spaniels, owned by the, my wellies cost £200 but I haven't got a clue brigade and two rotties owned by a chap in a bandanna, roller blading, a full on Ceaser Millan wanna be. My dog just stood there, expecting me to protect her, which I did. She has been humped by a big old lab of the wellie brigade as well whilst the owner stood around finding it funny,(just as well my dog is more tolerant than me). My staff has been more tolerant of badly mannered dogs and their owners than you would believe but if she had of snapped you can bet that the local rag front page would have been...................staffy attacks spaniel....................that's all I've got to say about that

I know him.. He did used to live in Gosport, but moved over there.. He`s not a bad guy to be fair, them rotti`s we`re rescues, he got them at 8 months, kept in crates, drinking from water bottles.. The original owners bought them for a pair of 8yr old twin girls birthday present. As soon as they got big the family crated them and kept them in the garden. So you cant knock him really. But yeah, if Ceaser was about, he`d prob try and shag his leg..

 

See, I wasn't making it up! Fair play to the bloke though for having the dogs..............................................he was bloody good on those roller blades too

 

Ha ha ha. He`s been doing it a couple of years now. Seen some grazes on his knees and elbows, got mashed right up when he first started at it. Daren't not let go of the leads when he went down, it was mastered mostly at night

[trenchfoot 4,243]

Or the Grey's have just had a higher prey drive bred in over the years, enough drive to chase a rag

Unless an outcrossing has been added since the mid to late 1700's then a lack of prey drive has been bred out, not in!

[trenchfoot 4,243]

 

 

Some greyhounds and non bullx lurchers will run to the bitter end, I think that's the trait we exaggerated into running dogs and not gameness

if gameness is only found in bulls then surely only physical differences would make a winner or loser but that is as we both know is not true so whatever it is all dogs don't posses it and if thats the case then it can not be restricted to a single breed but rather as you say a trait in particular individuals

it takes more than gameness to make a good match dog, infact, some of the best dogs never had their gameness fully tested because they had so many other tools in the box they had the job finished before gameness was ever brought to play. you should always breed for gameness, but when choosing a MATCH dog, it may not be the first thing you look for....discuss.

 

Yokel.

Pre ban match dogs are even more long gone than pre ban lurchers. So to use a more later day example of lurchers, there have been three memorable lurchers in my life that have gone into combat In the field. A collie/bull hybrid lurcher dog that was driven to catch them, but used its brain and fence with the critter to take an effective final hold and finish the job - this dog to me had prey drive and brains, but not "game"; a smallish line bred collie x lurcher bitch, who went out of her way to find and annihilate any fox, but didn't like taking stick. And a b*****d to live with. Driven, great technique and punched above her weight, but not game; and finally a second gen F1 bull x dog, that was the easiest dog to have around, but when switched on would take any amount of stick of his adversary. A highly focussed dog that had a knack of using technique to make the most of each hold, but also have an eye for the next best one almost regardless of what he stick he was getting in return, and never jibbed. That to me was a truely game dog, and the one that had what I consider that historically had the attributes of a match dog. JMO

 

Shame I don't have these dogs anymore

Edited November 14, 2013 by trenchfoot

[Hot Meat 3,109]

 

 

 

Some greyhounds and non bullx lurchers will run to the bitter end, I think that's the trait we exaggerated into running dogs and not gameness

if gameness is only found in bulls then surely only physical differences would make a winner or loser but that is as we both know is not true so whatever it is all dogs don't posses it and if thats the case then it can not be restricted to a single breed but rather as you say a trait in particular individuals

it takes more than gameness to make a good match dog, infact, some of the best dogs never had their gameness fully tested because they had so many other tools in the box they had the job finished before gameness was ever brought to play. you should always breed for gameness, but when choosing a MATCH dog, it may not be the first thing you look for....discuss.

 

Yokel.

Pre ban match dogs are even more long gone than pre ban lurchers. So to use a more later day example of lurchers, there have been three memorable lurchers in my life that have gone into combat In the field. A collie/bull hybrid lurcher dog that was driven to catch them, but used its brain and fence with the critter to take an effective final hold and finish the job - this dog to me had prey drive and brains, but not "game"; a smallish line bred collie x lurcher bitch, who went out of her way to find and annihilate any fox, but didn't like taking stick. And a b*****d to live with. Driven, great technique and punched above her weight, but not game; and finally a second gen F1 bull x dog, that was the easiest dog to have around, but when switched on would take any amount of stick of his adversary. A highly focussed dog that had a knack of using technique to make the most of each hold, but also have an eye for the next best one almost regardless of what he stick he was getting in return, and never jibbed. That to me was a truely game dog, and the one that had what I consider that historically had the attributes of a match dog. JMO

 

Shame I don't have the the present of these dogs

 

Run out of likes

[trenchfoot 4,243]

 

 

 

 

Some greyhounds and non bullx lurchers will run to the bitter end, I think that's the trait we exaggerated into running dogs and not gameness

 

if gameness is only found in bulls then surely only physical differences would make a winner or loser but that is as we both know is not true so whatever it is all dogs don't posses it and if thats the case then it can not be restricted to a single breed but rather as you say a trait in particular individuals

it takes more than gameness to make a good match dog, infact, some of the best dogs never had their gameness fully tested because they had so many other tools in the box they had the job finished before gameness was ever brought to play. you should always breed for gameness, but when choosing a MATCH dog, it may not be the first thing you look for....discuss.

 

Yokel.

Pre ban match dogs are even more long gone than pre ban lurchers. So to use a more later day example of lurchers, there have been three memorable lurchers in my life that have gone into combat In the field. A collie/bull hybrid lurcher dog that was driven to catch them, but used its brain and fence with the critter to take an effective final hold and finish the job - this dog to me had prey drive and brains, but not "game"; a smallish line bred collie x lurcher bitch, who went out of her way to find and annihilate any fox, but didn't like taking stick. And a b*****d to live with. Driven, great technique and punched above her weight, but not game; and finally a second gen F1 bull x dog, that was the easiest dog to have around, but when switched on would take any amount of stick of his adversary. A highly focussed dog that had a knack of using technique to make the most of each hold, but also have an eye for the next best one almost regardless of what he stick he was getting in return, and never jibbed. That to me was a truely game dog, and the one that had what I consider that historically had the attributes of a match dog. JMO

Shame I don't have the the present of these dogs

Run out of likes

Can't argue with that, and that's no fun ;0)

[gnasher16 31,364]

 

 

 

 

heart is now so high in some lurchers that they will literally run themselves to death if allowed to. so its not just a trait confined to fighting dogs.

 

Very different kind of " heart " though mate im sure you would agree........not that the traits isnt just as impressive in a Lurcher.

 

its a trait carried over from the bull so why would it be different. would a pit not run itself to the ground chasing something that ran rather than faced

 

Of course it wouldnt..................it wasnt selectively bred for generations to chase it was bred to fight and if it quit in a fight its a cur.................if it quit chasing a hare who f****n cares !!!

 

Heart/gameness call it what you will.......a running dog may quit on lung power a fighting dog has a hundred and one reasons to quit......nothing can be compared to the direct physical and mental punishment a fighting dog takes.

 

nothing to do with lack of lung its the point where the dog has used every bit of glucose in its body and the muscles have worked that much that they are starting to break themselves down to continue the chase as there is not enough time for it to convert its fat reserves into sugar, most dogs will pull up but them with heart gameness call it what you will don't, they continue until they catch or collapse after the body gives up if a catch is made it then still has to find the energy to deal with its prey

 

I know whats involved mate i used the term lung power very loosely.....run out of steam.........f****d in general .....................it cant be compared to a fighting dog reaching the exact same level of exhaustion......only giving and taking severe punishment in order to reach it !............. i go with the saying gameness is like the water level in a glass some so high it spills over the top some so low you can barely see it.................its an impressive trait regardless of breed.......just for me nothing can ever truly test a dogs insides more than one of his own.

Edited November 13, 2013 by gnasher16

[gnasher16 31,364]

 

Must admit most of that went over the top of my head i dont think some things need to be overthought or overcomplicated..............gameness is not a natural trait,its not natural for a dog to take their death trying to come out victorious in battle hence once the initial threat display is over and the fur starts to fly 99% of dogs will say " f**k this im a survivor im outta here "...........the tiny % of dogs that embrace pain and suffering in order to win got that mentality from years and years of selective breeding by man heightening those traits to the point that they reproduce themselves.

 

I dont think that necessarily CAUSES decline in other traits but its common sense to think that if gameness has been the trait chosen to breed for above all else........then other less important traits will have been overlooked.

The problem with what your implying about game ness not been natural is that at some stage on varies continents throughout history varies people bred from 2 curs and produced game offspring ,?? if Gameness is not in the natural world how the hell did they manage to get game pups from common curs??

 

Thats genetics for you mate............do proven game dogs always produce game dogs then ?.......of course they dont.......thats where breeding comes in.

 

2 curs from a proven family of game dogs have far more chance of producing game offspring than 2 scatterbred deeply game dogs due to the way genes fall.

 

If gameness is a natural trait it would be easy to breed for.............and its not its probably the most elusive trait within the world of gamedogs.

Edited November 13, 2013 by gnasher16

[gnasher16 31,364]

 

Even the gamest of dogs will amount to nowt without a good mouth imo

 

 

Now thats just nuts ..............gameness AND mouth...........................you,ll be wanting jam on it as well next

[Born Hunter 17,909]

Gnash, I think you're looking at the trait of gameness as a very black and white trait rather than a varying scale from gutless to dead game. I'd say it's as natural as any other trait physical or mental. You can't just breed dead game dogs like you can't just breed English Derby winners. But you can produce dogs that are on average gamer than the majority, like you can breed greys that are on average faster than the majority. Doesn't mean speed or indeed gameness isn't natural, just the extremes aren't common, nonetheless there had to be the potential for that in the genetics.

[bird 10,014]

Gnash, I think you're looking at the trait of gameness as a very black and white trait rather than a varying scale from gutless to dead game. I'd say it's as natural as any other trait physical or mental. You can't just breed dead game dogs like you can't just breed English Derby winners. But you can produce dogs that are on average gamer than the majority, like you can breed greys that are on average faster than the majority. Doesn't mean speed or indeed gameness isn't natural, just the extremes aren't common, nonetheless there had to be the potential for that in the genetics.

[gnasher16 31,364]

Gnash, I think you're looking at the trait of gameness as a very black and white trait rather than a varying scale from gutless to dead game. I'd say it's as natural as any other trait physical or mental. You can't just breed dead game dogs like you can't just breed English Derby winners. But you can produce dogs that are on average gamer than the majority, like you can breed greys that are on average faster than the majority. Doesn't mean speed or indeed gameness isn't natural, just the extremes aren't common, nonetheless there had to be the potential for that in the genetics.

 

I think you are talking about " natural " in terms of the way it produces.......................im talking about " natural " as in the trait itself......its not natural for a dog to be willing to fight beyond a certain level.......and if he wont fight beyond a certain level he,s not game ??

 

There are some people who think gameness IS black and white......as in a dog is either game or its not and conditioning is the only factor as to performance............myself i dont agree with that i think there are varying levels of gameness...........those peoples argument would be if theres varying levels of gameness is there varying levels of cur ?......and for me thats where you just have to keep it sensible....hence i DONT think its black and white at all.