Fatman and How Deep, can you explain exactly how the dogs work that just lay hold without taking any punishment? I've genuinely never seen it how you both are describing it. I've seen steady dogs that take hold on breakthrough and I've seen mute dogs that go in and take hold, but they don't always get a cheek hold, so they will take a lot of punishment otherwise? I honestly can not fathom how a dog can go in, grab a cheek hold and lay there without taking punishment, every time?