My original point had nowt whatsoever to do with pushing dogs to breaking point, that just got thrown in, as the usual response to these kind of things. Joe initially stated that life gets in the way of working dogs, and thats true. My observation was that very few folk manage to get 'the most' out of their dog or see what it really is or isn't capable of, simply because life gets in the way. Working a running dog and taking it on that journey to really give it as much as it can handle (without wrecking it), requires a lot of time, effort and dedication, a drop of luck and probably quite big b