Another school shooting in America

[Mickey Finn 2,710]

Well, the USA is certainly a violent place. It's also a place where much of the worlds good gets started and is done.

To say we care more about individual rights and liberties than we do for our children's lives is a little harsh.

 

ATB

[JDHUNTING 1,817]

I think trump got closer to the problem with his comment on video games, guns are just an inanimate object the problem is mentally disturbed kids with access to extreme violence from an early age,games movies and the internet, it's all advertising for the disturbed mind. Guns have been freely available in America since day one but mass school shootings are a recent phenomenon, they also are grouped together as the media frenzy kicks others into action, I think the a lot of the  internet, access to violent movies and video games should be banned and the world return to a simpler place were kids aren't put under the pressures they are now, but that ain't gonna happen too much $$$. Its so hypocritical that these Hollywood darlings are always the most vociferous with the guns, trump, me too and all that bollocks when they (along with politicians) are the most morally corrupt. Hollywood: " ban guns, ban sexual innuendo,ban trump" oh but don't forget to come see our next movie " pussy blaster" starring some c**t. Silicon valley the same

[WILF 44,319]

3 hours ago, JDHUNTING said:

I think trump got closer to the problem with his comment on video games, guns are just an inanimate object the problem is mentally disturbed kids with access to extreme violence from an early age,games movies and the internet, it's all advertising for the disturbed mind. Guns have been freely available in America since day one but mass school shootings are a recent phenomenon, they also are grouped together as the media frenzy kicks others into action, I think the a lot of the  internet, access to violent movies and video games should be banned and the world return to a simpler place were kids aren't put under the pressures they are now, but that ain't gonna happen too much $$$. Its so hypocritical that these Hollywood darlings are always the most vociferous with the guns, trump, me too and all that bollocks when they (along with politicians) are the most morally corrupt. Hollywood: " ban guns, ban sexual innuendo,ban trump" oh but don't forget to come see our next movie " pussy blaster" starring some c**t. Silicon valley the same

Brilliant post mate 

[scothunter 12,609]

But trump talks pish. Cause he was the very one who scrapped legislation that would  stop  folk with mental health problems  getting guns. 

 

 

[.357shooter 993]

JDHUNTING.

has hit the nail on the head.america has allways had guns but it is this latest generation of spoiled brats that are not to to told anything by anyone who are the greatest problem.they just have a hissy fit beacause someone told them of for some tiny little thing and bang the world hates me and they think what have i got to lose and what does it matter.the younger generations do not give a flying feck about anything other than what goes on social media nothing else is real.every one these days is in it for themselves society has lost the plot,the little things that i was taught as a child like "if you have nothing nice to say do not say anything" and just holding a door open for a lady or giving your seat up to an oap on a bus are now just a sign of weakness to be exploited.the world has change a lot in just the 46 years i have been on the planet and not for the better in any way

[Meece 1,957]

5 hours ago, .357shooter said:

JDHUNTING.

has hit the nail on the head.america has allways had guns but it is this latest generation of spoiled brats that are not to to told anything by anyone who are the greatest problem.they just have a hissy fit beacause someone told them of for some tiny little thing and bang the world hates me and they think what have i got to lose and what does it matter.the younger generations do not give a flying feck about anything other than what goes on social media nothing else is real.every one these days is in it for themselves society has lost the plot,the little things that i was taught as a child like "if you have nothing nice to say do not say anything" and just holding a door open for a lady or giving your seat up to an oap on a bus are now just a sign of weakness to be exploited.the world has change a lot in just the 46 years i have been on the planet and not for the better in any way

It dont  seem as if its kids specificaly.  BBC ..... The average age of attackers in 91 recorded US mass shootings, including the Las Vegas attack, was 34.

Stephen Paddock, the gunman who killed 58 concertgoers in Las Vegas, is one of three killers aged over 60. The others are: William D Baker, 66, who killed five people in Illinois in 2001; and Kurt Myers, 64, who killed five people in New York state in 2013.

The youngest killer is Andrew Douglas Golden, 11, who ambushed students and teachers as they left Westside Middle School in Arkansas, in 1998. He was jointly responsible with Mitchell Scott Johnson, 13, for five deaths and 10 injured.

 

[Meece 1,957]

More companies are starting to pull support forthe NRA. The emperors clothes are starting to fall off. At what point will the politicians start to say they won't accept funding donations? 

[Born Hunter 17,638]

1 minute ago, Meece said:

More companies are starting to pull support forthe NRA. The emperors clothes are starting to fall off. At what point will the politicians start to say they won't accept funding donations? 

Wait for the backlash from 2A supporters against those companies. As much as folks like to think the NRA are the source of all evil, the pro gun portion of the electorate are powerful alone.

[Mickey Finn 2,710]

36 minutes ago, Meece said:

More companies are starting to pull support forthe NRA. The emperors clothes are starting to fall off. At what point will the politicians start to say they won't accept funding donations? 

The planet you live on must be very nice.

On this planet, in these situations. The NRA always ends up as the temporary fall guy and they withstand the wrath of the media. Their followers remain loyal because they do not waiver in their message. Some people still respect that sort of thing.

The most recent tragedy has started the ban on assault style weapons all over again. (I'm not sure exactly which weapons are not styled for assaulting.) Anyway, a majority of firearms produced these days seem to be built on an "ar" platform. So, we would have as much luck collecting them as we've had keeping heroin off of our streets. It's a pointless debate but useful as an outlet for emotions. We have those too you see.

 

ATB

[mackem 23,796]

1 hour ago, Meece said:

The youngest killer is Andrew Douglas Golden, 11, who ambushed students and teachers as they left Westside Middle School in Arkansas, in 1998. He was jointly responsible with Mitchell Scott Johnson, 13, for five deaths and 10 injured.

Just read their story,both released at the age of 21.

[Meece 1,957]

It doesn't matter what I write or think. This is an  American issue. Who trusts a politician? Here or there. The public are just  sheep. More so are politicians. At the moment it is a few companies but when more Jump on the wagon the advantage will change. I just look on as a bystander seeing how this will pan  out. The whole 2a thing and the bad guy mentality is a bit of a house of cards. A litle while ago there was a rushcto the gunshpps to buy guns and there were customers in there buying guns. that they hadnt a clue of how to use them. They were more of a danger to anything other than a bad guy. It is interesting how this will go. Especially if the politicians start to give ground and start jumping on the wagon.

[ChrisJones 7,973]

8 hours ago, Born Hunter said:

Wait for the backlash from 2A supporters against those companies.

Well said, sir. Those that don't understand the support this amendment has are the same people that didn't think The Donald would get elected.

6 hours ago, Meece said:

It doesn't matter what I write or think. This is an  American issue. Who trusts a politician? Here or there. The public are just  sheep. More so are politicians. At the moment it is a few companies but when more Jump on the wagon the advantage will change. I just look on as a bystander seeing how this will pan  out. The whole 2a thing and the bad guy mentality is a bit of a house of cards. A litle while ago there was a rushcto the gunshpps to buy guns and there were customers in there buying guns. that they hadnt a clue of how to use them. They were more of a danger to anything other than a bad guy. It is interesting how this will go. Especially if the politicians start to give ground and start jumping on the wagon.

The Republicans are in a bit of tricky spot here. They're looking at a whipping in the November midterms and have been on damage control for quite a bit. Inaction on this issue will see them punished by the opposition. Too much action on this will see them punished by their supporters. They'll have to enact something that will buffer a middle ground and it's something they just don't want to handle. I'm in agreement though, I'm also interested in just how this going to play out and how mainstream media narrative is both simultaneously fact and fiction depending on the politics of the consumer!

Moving on...

Firstly. If anyone wants to read the 73-page Homeland Security Manual, First Responder Guide For Improving Survivability in Improvised Explosive Devices And/Or Active Shooter Incidents, you'll see that the emphasis is on contain rather than assault. This content is quite ambiguous and I'm sure that all LE bodies have differences in procedure. It's kind of a double-edged sword though, IMHO. These are sworn officers and this is the day they trained for. However, as has been pointed about security biased sources, these incidents can take months and years of planning in order to be successful. I have a foot in both camps here and I wonder what my reaction would be? Would I be attempting to engage an unknown number of assailants in my old secondary school or would I be trying to get people to safety and be mindful of diversions and whether there are additional assailants waiting for such a thing to play out? Bottom line is until the bullets start flying you won't know and you'll hope your training is the quality that your muscle memory is going to revert to and I'm going to be looking for tourniquets rather than charging blindly into a building that I probably am not familiar with the layout. Pure speculation though and drawn from what ifs.

Secondly, Four Broward County deputies waited outside the school. Not just the one. They hid behind cars with their guns drawn. Coral Springs police arrived as backup and went straight in. They're investigating alleged inaction. It's also been reported that Broward County sheriffs department had received at least 18 calls in the past decade warning the that shooter was potentially dangerous. Five of those calls related specifically to stockpiling weapons. At least two counsellors assessed the shooter's mental health and decided not to act despite self-harming and suicide attempts. Broward County deputies made 39 visits to Cruz's house over a 7 year period.

At the risk of sounding like a broken record, I'm also looking at massive failures in the public sector for both law enforcement and social services.

While all eyes are focused on LE, here's the kicker. The police have no duty to protect the individual in the US. That's not a typo. They have a duty to protect the public as a whole but not the individual and the most often cited example of this is Warren Vs The District of Columbia and quite famously in this case where police barricaded themselves in a subway train while a member of the public subdued a maniac who went on a stabbing spree in NY's subway system. Their intervention is at will it seems... If they're under no obligation to intervene how would it be possible to repeal/restrict the 2A and if they cannot carry out their duties on a daily basis just how the hell is anyone expecting them to enforce/confiscate anything in the future?

7 hours ago, Mickey Finn said:

So, we would have as much luck collecting them as we've had keeping heroin off of our streets.

Which is the elephant in the room and one of the reasons why the 2A is so passionately defended. If we can't trust the government why would we give up the right to protect ourselves from the government?

 

Edited February 25, 2018 by ChrisJones
Additional Information

[ChrisJones 7,973]

Donnie did not make it easier for mentally ill people to buy guns.

[Born Hunter 17,638]

5 hours ago, ChrisJones said:

Moving on...

Firstly. If anyone wants to read the 73-page Homeland Security Manual, First Responder Guide For Improving Survivability in Improvised Explosive Devices And/Or Active Shooter Incidents, you'll see that the emphasis is on contain rather than assault. This content is quite ambiguous and I'm sure that all LE bodies have differences in procedure. 

 

I haven't but I'll take your word for it. I have read this presentation and study of 84 active shooter events and LE depts training and policy on them by the Police Executive Research Forum.

 

"Columbine brought about a sea change in police tactics. “Contain and negotiate” may be appropriate for hostage incidents or situations where a person is barricaded in a room and unable to harm victims. But it is not appropriate for active shooter incidents. Columbine resulted in new approaches in which patrol officers are being trained to respond to active shooters as quickly as possible."

 

"In active shooter situations where an officer arrives at the scene and can hear shooting, screams, or other indications that the perpetrator is actively shooting 
or threatening victims, some departments’ policies explicitly provide that the lone officer can move to stop the threat without waiting for any additional officers to arrive. The shooter may be stopped by arrest, by containment, or by use of deadly force.

And some policies note that when an active shooter incident occurs at a school, a School Resource Officer (SRO) may be the first officer at the scene who must make a decision about whether to respond alone. Other departments require that officers wait until a certain number of officers have arrived. Those officers are instructed to form a “contact team” that responds as a unit with the mission of stopping the shooter and preventing his escape."

 

Based on that and the Sheriffs decision to suspend his SRO for not acting is it not reasonable to assume his sheriff's dept has the policy of a lone deputy engaging the shooter?

Edited February 25, 2018 by Born Hunter

[stumfelter 3,032]

Is there no legislation in America to stop mentally disturbed people having access to guns? Over here they wouldn't let him have a spud gun.