Jump to content

A.P.B.T....


Recommended Posts

3 hours ago, saluki bouy said:

Never meet more jelous or more to face men in the pigeon world ?

vein would be collapsed due to damage during the match? 

obviously there would be levels or seriousness to the different dogs matching was there ever Wheaton terriers of Staffordshire that you knew of that held there own or is that just unthinkable I’m just thinking along the lines of the trails they held in Ireland 

 

and thanks very much aswell it’s a eye opener to anyone reading and puts a few well illthought of opinions to bed 

The front leg vein would always be priority, if that was down you'd go to a rear leg and worse case scenario into the jugular ( if you know what you're doing )....a vein could be collapsed due to low blood pressure/blood loss from a bleeder etc the first priority with hv shock is restoring an effective circulating blood volume so Vit K injectible to help with clotting and once your iv is set 5cc of Azium into a bag of fluids....these days they use Solu Delta Cortef as its still anti shock/anti inflam but stronger,an intra muscular anti biotic injection and another 3cc Azium under the skin and the dog should be stabilized......then its a matter of sorting injuries and basic love & luck....not always but usually a dogs first piss is a good sign he'll recover but its surprising how much basic " care and effection " play a part....its where a good woman comes in handy to sit up and just be close to the dog almost like a child will feel safer and secure with physical contact....it does help.

Anyway thats enough from me im just rambling out of boredom now ?.....theres been some game little Staffords/English/Wheatens or whatever.... but no not for me.....with all due respect to those breeds most serious bulldoggers would of seen them as an easy touch or a way to build a quick champion.

Edited by gnasher16
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Replies 412
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

Nice read that was i couldnt " like " it for some reason....i think the pit bulls were addictive a lot of young lads of our generation had a healthy respect for their physical prowess and that was goo

Most pics of dogs that went through my hands mate ended up with the dead chap spoken about on this topic !....and it wouldnt be right to show other peoples dogs but this is a dog im fairly close to on

My APBT Max.

Posted Images

37 minutes ago, THE STIFFMEISTER said:

That’s the thing I was attempting to get at earlier in a post , do you think that the matching of apbts led the way in that regard?? 

Possibly mate i dont know enough about running dogs or have enough experience of them to answer really.....it would be such a different goal nutritionally though i dont really see the connection but of course all knowledge helps.

With bulldogs it was a combination of strength/power/endurance/toughness/stamina on a single moment of a single day so supplement wise its all geared up towards a high red cell count naturally....of course dogs dont use carbs like we do fat is the main energy source so reading Mchull say he doesnt feed a sporting dog raw i find quite amazing in all honesty and if thats the case then no,clearly the matching of dogs didnt lead the way ?

Must admit i was quite shocked to read the lads discussing the breeding of running dogs earlier in the thread where someone said the old bulldog breeders influenced running dog breeders who before that didnt know much about line breeding/outcrossing etc i think the person said.....i find that hard to believe and what Mchull said made sense to me there must have been dogmen who knew how to breed before the gamedog chaps came along surely ?....normally wherever decent dough changes hands to do with animals people tend to know their shit and i know people matched for decent money long before gamedog folk came along.

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, gnasher16 said:

Possibly mate i dont know enough about running dogs or have enough experience of them to answer really.....it would be such a different goal nutritionally though i dont really see the connection but of course all knowledge helps.

With bulldogs it was a combination of strength/power/endurance/toughness/stamina on a single moment of a single day so supplement wise its all geared up towards a high red cell count naturally....of course dogs dont use carbs like we do fat is the main energy source so reading Mchull say he doesnt feed a sporting dog raw i find quite amazing in all honesty and if thats the case then no,clearly the matching of dogs didnt lead the way ?

Must admit i was quite shocked to read the lads discussing the breeding of running dogs earlier in the thread where someone said the old bulldog breeders influenced running dog breeders who before that didnt know much about line breeding/outcrossing etc i think the person said.....i find that hard to believe and what Mchull said made sense to me there must have been dogmen who knew how to breed before the gamedog chaps came along surely ?....normally wherever decent dough changes hands to do with animals people tend to know their shit and i know people matched for decent money long before gamedog folk came along.

i feed meat and  offal veg mate i feed more broths boil it up gnash but i’ll feed good kibble aswell porridge honey etc some days 6F027880-10A0-498D-8AA2-A70CBA8F96D1.png.b97cbe5cc94ddea20e1cbbe3cfcb52bd.pngbones most days  be twice a day come winter when i’ll add extra fat 

i just didn’t get the dogs looking and performing aswell on raw diet mate 

something like this i’m happy ?

fats east to add ? 48DDE254-C246-4AF7-997E-94EC2923550E.png.12ccb8a54b9d34fb777353e3c6f3072c.png

Edited by mC HULL
  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

Lovely looking hound mate looks really well....but this is where i just cant see the connection between gamedog knowledge and running dog knowledge you are looking for a high level of general health and fitness where bulldog folk are looking for a one time peak at a very specific weight....the last part of a bulldogs keep is far from a safe place for the dog as his hydration level is at a bare minimum,body fat is low and blood counts are in the extreme.....he's in amazing physical condition but not completely healthy.

Bulldog folk dont feed a dog for good general health thats where the pre keep comes in it takes a good 3 - 4 weeks for a dog to acclimate to a different energy source,if a dogs fed a high protein/low fat diet and then switched his body will continue to look for the protein as both his energy source and as a means of recovery after work.

You say you couldnt get your dogs performing as well on raw food and i just find that hard to believe mate....kibble is highly processed and you will never maximize nutrition for a sporting dog using it but again,does a running dog need to be " maximized  " as a one off.....domestication has caused a dogs digestive efficiency to fall way behind a wild dogs/wolf,the small intestine is where most nutrients are absorbed so a completely natural feed is absorbed much more effectively than processed meaning using " real food " enables you to control more things...hydration using food,carb sensitivity,controlling insulin and moving blood more efficiently just cant be done with a dry food thats already been broken down and had the water removed by baking it out !

Dogs respond much better to fats than humans as far as producing energy go's and of course unsaturated fats are a lot less calorie dense but does that matter with running dogs i dont know...so as regards beef dripping im not sure if you're joking or not ? 

Im not teaching your granny how to suck eggs by the way ( or whatever that saying is )......im sure you know your stuff....its one of those things,if feeding cabbage and custard is getting you results then feed that.....its only my incessant waffling opinions on another sleepless night... have you given up with this sleep lark as well ?

Edited by gnasher16
  • Like 5
Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, mC HULL said:

?i’ll have a read of that later scotty 

the irish stafford just down from the dogs that went to america in the first place ? 

Ain’t clued up enough on the subject mate it just popped up on Facebook thought it may have been worth a read to some on here …. Decent informative thread for a change without any school boy bickering 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

This thread has triggered some memories, like the fact you could walk into the abbatoir stand and talk to the killers pick up tripe, heads, oxtails etc, drop the gaffer a couple of quid and walk out again.  Pretty much go where you wanted and within reason do what you wanted. We had the best of it.

  • Like 11
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, gnasher16 said:

Lovely looking hound mate looks really well....but this is where i just cant see the connection between gamedog knowledge and running dog knowledge you are looking for a high level of general health and fitness where bulldog folk are looking for a one time peak at a very specific weight....the last part of a bulldogs keep is far from a safe place for the dog as his hydration level is at a bare minimum,body fat is low and blood counts are in the extreme.....he's in amazing physical condition but not completely healthy.

Bulldog folk dont feed a dog for good general health thats where the pre keep comes in it takes a good 3 - 4 weeks for a dog to acclimate to a different energy source,if a dogs fed a high protein/low fat diet and then switched his body will continue to look for the protein as both his energy source and as a means of recovery after work.

You say you couldnt get your dogs performing as well on raw food and i just find that hard to believe mate....kibble is highly processed and you will never maximize nutrition for a sporting dog using it but again,does a running dog need to be " maximized  " as a one off.....domestication has caused a dogs digestive efficiency to fall way behind a wild dogs/wolf,the small intestine is where most nutrients are absorbed so a completely natural feed is absorbed much more effectively than processed meaning using " real food " enables you to control more things...hydration using food,carb sensitivity,controlling insulin and moving blood more efficiently just cant be done with a dry food thats already been broken down and had the water removed by baking it out !

Dogs respond much better to fats than humans as far as producing energy go's and of course unsaturated fats are a lot less calorie dense but does that matter with running dogs i dont know...so as regards beef dripping im not sure if you're joking or not ? 

Im not teaching your granny how to suck eggs by the way ( or whatever that saying is )......im sure you know your stuff....its one of those things,if feeding cabbage and custard is getting you results then feed that.....its only my incessant waffling opinions on another sleepless night... have you given up with this sleep lark as well ?

Absolutely not as technical as that reply there mate, but something you said stood out about dogs “acclimate” to a different diet.

I noticed that lots of times in the past when folks who fed an almost total processed diet like Eukanuba or kibble said their dog wouldn’t take to raw feed. 
 

I always fed my dogs everything, I believed they never got fussy that way where as people who stuck to a regular single type diet, the dogs seem to “shock” if they changed it.

Mine would get minced chicken and then all the home leftovers dumped on top, pigs heads, whole rabbits skin on and guts in….anything.

One other thing I noticed, I have always eaten a lot of garlic, turmeric, spices, herbs in what we cook at home and the dogs always got the leftovers so it was in their diet too…..my dogs very, very rarely ever needed worming with chemical wormer….maybe once a year I’d give them chemical wormer just as a precaution. 
Don’t know if them getting all that garlic and spices in their diet was the cause of them being worm free but I think it was despite them getting whole critters all the time as well. 
 

My in-laws have always fed Eukanuba and they have had more fat dogs keel over from cancer and various other ailments than enough. 

I had to take a bitch to the Noel Fitzpatrick to get a broken leg fixed and I did nothing special with that bitch because I just did what I thought was right but wasn’t a student of feeding or conditioning or anything, they commented on how fit the dog was and that was mostly just down to feeding as far as I’m concerned. 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, gnasher16 said:

Possibly mate i dont know enough about running dogs or have enough experience of them to answer really.....it would be such a different goal nutritionally though i dont really see the connection but of course all knowledge helps.

With bulldogs it was a combination of strength/power/endurance/toughness/stamina on a single moment of a single day so supplement wise its all geared up towards a high red cell count naturally....of course dogs dont use carbs like we do fat is the main energy source so reading Mchull say he doesnt feed a sporting dog raw i find quite amazing in all honesty and if thats the case then no,clearly the matching of dogs didnt lead the way ?

Must admit i was quite shocked to read the lads discussing the breeding of running dogs earlier in the thread where someone said the old bulldog breeders influenced running dog breeders who before that didnt know much about line breeding/outcrossing etc i think the person said.....i find that hard to believe and what Mchull said made sense to me there must have been dogmen who knew how to breed before the gamedog chaps came along surely ?....normally wherever decent dough changes hands to do with animals people tend to know their shit and i know people matched for decent money long before gamedog folk came along.

I'd say both sorts of dogs have been around about the same length of time or there abouts and folk who know about dogs have always bred best to best so imo line breeding etc is nothing new and it's just down to folk being able to make records (writing it down so others can read it) that folks can openly discuss it as such. Dog men attract other dog men so mixing between dog types by folks has always gone on...

One of the best folks on here who could add a bit to this is max as it goes as he does know his shit about conditioning greyhounds at the top and he could tell us the in's and out's of how to do it so the bulldog folks could tell the difference in the two,shame really but i'll leave  that there though   :thumbs: ......

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

Theres allways been a mixture, crossover, whatever you want to call it, of lads who had running dogs and game dogs.

I know lads who used to go over to Ireland and come back with game dogs and greyhounds supplied by the same, well known breeders over 50 years ago.

A lad I've known all my life was heavily into the game dogs and lurchers.

My older brother had game dogs and racing whippets.

Even me, a dedicated running dog man had a bull bitch at one time.

Theres a lad from Sunderland who was right into the game dogs and lurchers.

I guess where there's betting, prestige, competition, men will own both game dogs and runners.

Cheers.

 

  • Like 4
Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, gnasher16 said:

Lovely looking hound mate looks really well....but this is where i just cant see the connection between gamedog knowledge and running dog knowledge you are looking for a high level of general health and fitness where bulldog folk are looking for a one time peak at a very specific weight....the last part of a bulldogs keep is far from a safe place for the dog as his hydration level is at a bare minimum,body fat is low and blood counts are in the extreme.....he's in amazing physical condition but not completely healthy.

Bulldog folk dont feed a dog for good general health thats where the pre keep comes in it takes a good 3 - 4 weeks for a dog to acclimate to a different energy source,if a dogs fed a high protein/low fat diet and then switched his body will continue to look for the protein as both his energy source and as a means of recovery after work.

You say you couldnt get your dogs performing as well on raw food and i just find that hard to believe mate....kibble is highly processed and you will never maximize nutrition for a sporting dog using it but again,does a running dog need to be " maximized  " as a one off.....domestication has caused a dogs digestive efficiency to fall way behind a wild dogs/wolf,the small intestine is where most nutrients are absorbed so a completely natural feed is absorbed much more effectively than processed meaning using " real food " enables you to control more things...hydration using food,carb sensitivity,controlling insulin and moving blood more efficiently just cant be done with a dry food thats already been broken down and had the water removed by baking it out !

Dogs respond much better to fats than humans as far as producing energy go's and of course unsaturated fats are a lot less calorie dense but does that matter with running dogs i dont know...so as regards beef dripping im not sure if you're joking or not ? 

Im not teaching your granny how to suck eggs by the way ( or whatever that saying is )......im sure you know your stuff....its one of those things,if feeding cabbage and custard is getting you results then feed that.....its only my incessant waffling opinions on another sleepless night... have you given up with this sleep lark as well ?

i understand what your saying mate but a hare dog is worked every week right threw  is low body fat needs to be hydrated they need to be in amazing condition but on the right side you have to peak and try keeping them there it’s easy to take to much out off them and you will catch nothing it’s a fine line 

id always soak kibble before i give it mate and watery broths hydrate aswell 

when i’ve fed raw they just don’t seem to be in the same condition look right on it i find a varied diet with kibble eggs some mornings porridge and the other feed meaty broth cold dead a winter wet threw takes it out of them mate i’ll get fatty trims but i’ll add dripping it’s always good to have on hand 

i’m enjoying reading about the ways you do it mate i find it interesting  ? 

 

Edited by mC HULL
  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, WILF said:

Absolutely not as technical as that reply there mate, but something you said stood out about dogs “acclimate” to a different diet.

I noticed that lots of times in the past when folks who fed an almost total processed diet like Eukanuba or kibble said their dog wouldn’t take to raw feed. 
 

I always fed my dogs everything, I believed they never got fussy that way where as people who stuck to a regular single type diet, the dogs seem to “shock” if they changed it.

Mine would get minced chicken and then all the home leftovers dumped on top, pigs heads, whole rabbits skin on and guts in….anything.

One other thing I noticed, I have always eaten a lot of garlic, turmeric, spices, herbs in what we cook at home and the dogs always got the leftovers so it was in their diet too…..my dogs very, very rarely ever needed worming with chemical wormer….maybe once a year I’d give them chemical wormer just as a precaution. 
Don’t know if them getting all that garlic and spices in their diet was the cause of them being worm free but I think it was despite them getting whole critters all the time as well. 
 

My in-laws have always fed Eukanuba and they have had more fat dogs keel over from cancer and various other ailments than enough. 

I had to take a bitch to the Noel Fitzpatrick to get a broken leg fixed and I did nothing special with that bitch because I just did what I thought was right but wasn’t a student of feeding or conditioning or anything, they commented on how fit the dog was and that was mostly just down to feeding as far as I’m concerned. 

When i said about how dogs acclimate i meant in terms of protein/fat/carb etc ratios as opposed to raw or kibble but yes i get what you're saying......the " shock " you talk about was always a contentious issue in gamedogs you had those who maybe only kept 1 or 2 dogs and kept them at a high level of fitness year round....and then you had those who had multiple dogs and woulld keep them healthy but out of shape until a match was made.....some people felt that the dog fitter to start with had the advantage as he was halfway there kind of thing but my opinion was always that the " shock " you describe....is lost....once the pre keep was done and the work stepped up you would feel the dog raise his game and mentally change gear i always use the race car analogy.......so you're cruising along at 40 mph in third gear and you need to hit 70 mph as quick as possible.....if you floor it in 3rd gear its a slow gradual pull to 70 mph but if you drop down to 2nd gear its a sudden burst to 60/70 where every part of those mechanics are brought into play in explosive performance.

When a dog is cruising through life at a high level of fitness theres very little room to go before he hits his ceiling whereas a dog kept in good general health but not " fit " hits that gear change physically and mentally and with the correct diet/supps etc its a sight to behold and a vital part of peaking a dog.

Again......as ive said through the topic its difficult to compare running dog fitness to gamedog fitness as the goals are so very different and personally i dont think they really translate.

Edited by gnasher16
  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, fireman said:

I'd say both sorts of dogs have been around about the same length of time or there abouts and folk who know about dogs have always bred best to best so imo line breeding etc is nothing new and it's just down to folk being able to make records (writing it down so others can read it) that folks can openly discuss it as such. Dog men attract other dog men so mixing between dog types by folks has always gone on...

One of the best folks on here who could add a bit to this is max as it goes as he does know his shit about conditioning greyhounds at the top and he could tell us the in's and out's of how to do it so the bulldog folks could tell the difference in the two,shame really but i'll leave  that there though   :thumbs: ......

Agreed....it doesnt make sense to me that folk putting their hard earned money on good dogs wouldnt develop an understanding of what creates them.

Re Max,before he became a complete mong ? we exchanged a few thoughts on the subject and without wanting to take a cheap swipe at the lad,it was clear to me his basic understanding of physiology and biomechanics etc was nowhere near the level of top dog matchers but horses for courses different sports and im sure he knows enough about his own game to do well no problem......again i dont think the connection between gamedog fitness and running dog fitness has much relevance in all honesty.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.


×
×
  • Create New...