Greb147 6,808 Posted September 3, 2020 Report Share Posted September 3, 2020 7 hours ago, VOON said: They reckon the archive was edited... Never heard of that one, in all the footage I've seen? Ali had amazing recuperative recoveries but I do believe that's the most he's ever been dazed. The only other times I've seen him hurt like that were in the 11th round in the fight of the century and in the Shavers bout where he was badly stunned with a right hand but tried to clown afterwards. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gnasher16 29,650 Posted September 4, 2020 Report Share Posted September 4, 2020 On 29/08/2020 at 22:04, JDHUNTING said: Same league as in current standing or same league as in if they fought? I reckon Derek chisora would make short work of Henry Cooper and klitchko with probably the odd KO loss would beat everyone on Ali's record. I used to think the same as being said in here tbh then I put my rational head on and looked at the reality, which is athletes are better now than 50 years ago even if I don't want them to be. Past v Present is always a silly debate in sport unless you sensibly take some of the evolutionary advantages away from the present fighter and add them to the past fighter......Henry Cooper with 30% more of everything would absolutely annihilate Derek Chisora with 30% less of everything......likewise Ali with 30% more of everything would do what he wanted with a 30% less Klitchsko. Comparing Tyson Fury to Muhammad Ali is just being silly.....you just have to be sensible about it Ali beat all time great fighters in their primes...Fury has never and will never even fight an all time great fighter in their prime. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ihunter 44 Posted September 4, 2020 Report Share Posted September 4, 2020 Ali after beating sonny liston at 22 yrs old in 1964 (56 years ago) If people are still talking about him as the greatest nearly 6 decades later, I think it’s fair to say it’s because he was simply that good and actually went on to back his words against elite fighters. By comparison, when Tyson fury left the sport and went off the rails he was pretty much forgotten about within a month, maybe two at the most. Quite frankly I find it preposterous for anyone with any level of sports intelligence to claim that Tyson fury is even fit to lace Muhammad Ali’s boots but in the age of heavily edited footage, hand picked fighters and delusional “fan boys” this will unfortunately happen. Names like McDermott, wallin, Schwarz, pianeta etc just don’t or ever will match up to names like Fraizer, Liston, foreman, shavers and yes in fury’s credit he did beat klitschko, the way he simply melted and was forgotten about soon after proves how great he really isn’t! That aside.......what he did is pretty inspirational, to comeback from being a 28 stone train wreck to win a heavyweight boxing belt is awesome, fair play to him and full credit for doing something that far many can’t do in beating his demons to reach the top of the current crop. Unfortunately that does not make him the best fighter the world has ever seen, the ultimate fighter who was so fast he could switch the lights off and be in bed before the room got dark. Greatness is defined by legacy....Muhammad Ali has left his legacy, Tyson Fury is still writing his and while he is lucky enough to have a chance to add to his, he can’t change it and as commendable as his comeback was, as good as it was he beat wilder and reach the top of his sport.......he just isn’t Muhammad Ali.....! 11 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
fireman 10,774 Posted September 4, 2020 Report Share Posted September 4, 2020 THE END............................... 6 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
shaaark 10,133 Posted September 4, 2020 Report Share Posted September 4, 2020 5 hours ago, ihunter said: Ali after beating sonny liston at 22 yrs old in 1964 (56 years ago) If people are still talking about him as the greatest nearly 6 decades later, I think it’s fair to say it’s because he was simply that good and actually went on to back his words against elite fighters. By comparison, when Tyson fury left the sport and went off the rails he was pretty much forgotten about within a month, maybe two at the most. Quite frankly I find it preposterous for anyone with any level of sports intelligence to claim that Tyson fury is even fit to lace Muhammad Ali’s boots but in the age of heavily edited footage, hand picked fighters and delusional “fan boys” this will unfortunately happen. Names like McDermott, wallin, Schwarz, pianeta etc just don’t or ever will match up to names like Fraizer, Liston, foreman, shavers and yes in fury’s credit he did beat klitschko, the way he simply melted and was forgotten about soon after proves how great he really isn’t! That aside.......what he did is pretty inspirational, to comeback from being a 28 stone train wreck to win a heavyweight boxing belt is awesome, fair play to him and full credit for doing something that far many can’t do in beating his demons to reach the top of the current crop. Unfortunately that does not make him the best fighter the world has ever seen, the ultimate fighter who was so fast he could switch the lights off and be in bed before the room got dark. Greatness is defined by legacy....Muhammad Ali has left his legacy, Tyson Fury is still writing his and while he is lucky enough to have a chance to add to his, he can’t change it and as commendable as his comeback was, as good as it was he beat wilder and reach the top of his sport.......he just isn’t Muhammad Ali.....! Top post mate 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
king 11,664 Posted September 4, 2020 Report Share Posted September 4, 2020 Cracking post ihunter ....There was infact a welsh man who was a better boxer than fury it could be argued...he was up there with the best... 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
king 11,664 Posted September 4, 2020 Report Share Posted September 4, 2020 Here he is have a read...he was a professional boxer at age 13... https://www.britishvintageboxing.com/post/the-tonypandy-terror 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
king 11,664 Posted September 4, 2020 Report Share Posted September 4, 2020 Is there many story's still about of tommy farr.. @baker boy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ihunter 44 Posted September 5, 2020 Report Share Posted September 5, 2020 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JDHUNTING 1,817 Posted September 5, 2020 Report Share Posted September 5, 2020 18 hours ago, gnasher16 said: Past v Present is always a silly debate in sport unless you sensibly take some of the evolutionary advantages away from the present fighter and add them to the past fighter......Henry Cooper with 30% more of everything would absolutely annihilate Derek Chisora with 30% less of everything......likewise Ali with 30% more of everything would do what he wanted with a 30% less Klitchsko. Comparing Tyson Fury to Muhammad Ali is just being silly.....you just have to be sensible about it Ali beat all time great fighters in their primes...Fury has never and will never even fight an all time great fighter in their prime. That's fair enough but if you compare what they was to what they are then the old timers won't stack up and you don't need any boxing knowledge to see that, every single sport with measurable outcomes have constantly improving athletes/records I don't see why boxing's any different other than there's no set criteria to gauge against hence it's open to opinion, and when its open to opinion it's human nature to let your emotions sway your thinking. If no one had thought to time running races you'd have die hard Jesse Owens fans claiming he's faster than bolt. Footballs another look at the 66 team, legends and the only real giants of the English game given what they did etc but they'd prob be trounced by a modern England team even though for their respective eras there's no comparison. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JDHUNTING 1,817 Posted September 5, 2020 Report Share Posted September 5, 2020 17 hours ago, ihunter said: Ali after beating sonny liston at 22 yrs old in 1964 (56 years ago) If people are still talking about him as the greatest nearly 6 decades later, I think it’s fair to say it’s because he was simply that good and actually went on to back his words against elite fighters. By comparison, when Tyson fury left the sport and went off the rails he was pretty much forgotten about within a month, maybe two at the most. Quite frankly I find it preposterous for anyone with any level of sports intelligence to claim that Tyson fury is even fit to lace Muhammad Ali’s boots but in the age of heavily edited footage, hand picked fighters and delusional “fan boys” this will unfortunately happen. Names like McDermott, wallin, Schwarz, pianeta etc just don’t or ever will match up to names like Fraizer, Liston, foreman, shavers and yes in fury’s credit he did beat klitschko, the way he simply melted and was forgotten about soon after proves how great he really isn’t! That aside.......what he did is pretty inspirational, to comeback from being a 28 stone train wreck to win a heavyweight boxing belt is awesome, fair play to him and full credit for doing something that far many can’t do in beating his demons to reach the top of the current crop. Unfortunately that does not make him the best fighter the world has ever seen, the ultimate fighter who was so fast he could switch the lights off and be in bed before the room got dark. Greatness is defined by legacy....Muhammad Ali has left his legacy, Tyson Fury is still writing his and while he is lucky enough to have a chance to add to his, he can’t change it and as commendable as his comeback was, as good as it was he beat wilder and reach the top of his sport.......he just isn’t Muhammad Ali.....! Not sure what sporting intelligence is and how it differs from bog standard intelligence? And why bother comparing Ali's best opponents to Fury's worst? I don't really even like fury he's not the kind of sportsman or man I admire so no "fanboy" here. To be honest someone who thinks a 6'9" world champion has absolutely no chance and it's not even debatable to beat a guy from 60 years ago who was a bug's dick off getting beat by a 6ft 14 stone British champion then that's what smacks of "fanboy". Quote Link to post Share on other sites
WILF 44,305 Posted September 5, 2020 Report Share Posted September 5, 2020 18 hours ago, gnasher16 said: Past v Present is always a silly debate in sport unless you sensibly take some of the evolutionary advantages away from the present fighter and add them to the past fighter......Henry Cooper with 30% more of everything would absolutely annihilate Derek Chisora with 30% less of everything......likewise Ali with 30% more of everything would do what he wanted with a 30% less Klitchsko. Comparing Tyson Fury to Muhammad Ali is just being silly.....you just have to be sensible about it Ali beat all time great fighters in their primes...Fury has never and will never even fight an all time great fighter in their prime. Question mate, have there been any rule changes in boxing between the Ali era and today ? My point is, you can make a comparison if everyone is still working to the same rules. They are not working to the same rules in football and I wondered if boxing was the same ? Obviously sports science, nutrition and training has moved on beyond recognition Quote Link to post Share on other sites
oxo 385 Posted September 5, 2020 Report Share Posted September 5, 2020 2 hours ago, WILF said: Question mate, have there been any rule changes in boxing between the Ali era and today ? My point is, you can make a comparison if everyone is still working to the same rules. They are not working to the same rules in football and I wondered if boxing was the same ? Obviously sports science, nutrition and training has moved on beyond recognition Used to go 15 rounds 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Greyman 25,259 Posted September 5, 2020 Report Share Posted September 5, 2020 This is the dullest period in heavyweight boxing I can remember, they all spend more time on the internet calling out each other than fighting, and saying that by definition everything has improved so modern fighters must have is a joke, Mike Tyson could fight once a month not once a year and Tyson fury is a bit of an enigma but a pretty shite boxer who looks good against mediocre opposition, I can’t wait for a decent youngster with the hunger to just come and rip through the lot of them clear them out and start again, sadly it won’t because there is to much money in the heavy,s now, looking forward to Luke Campbell v Ryan Garcia, loma v teofimo and finally the man I hope can sort out the heavyweight division DDD v Joyce, Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Greyman 25,259 Posted September 5, 2020 Report Share Posted September 5, 2020 23 minutes ago, maxhardcore said: Furys got the Engine to go 20 ' he piss the division if it was still 15 rounders Whereas plenty others would struggle . If wilder hadn’t fallen over and gone all spaghetti legs fury didn’t look like he had 12 rounds in him let alone 20 you mad delusional fool 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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