Terrier work in the USA - Photos and Stories.

[keepdiggin 9,220]

6 minutes ago, Bolero said:

Yep. Baiting a dog is a fairly common tactic they use. They will get close and see whether or not the dog will give chase. If the dog goes for it they will keep enough distance between them and the dog where they are close enough so the dog thinks it has a chance of catching them. If the dog breaks off the chase sometimes they will stop and try teasing the dog again to chase them.  Just to give you an idea of how the speed of a coyote of a dog doesn’t have some type of running dog in the mix they ain’t catching them no way. Only time a dog like an American pit bull terrier can kill one is if the coyote is the one to engage and it does happen sometimes with the dogs in the 30-40 lb range. But most of the time of the bulldog doesn’t have a hard enough bite to one out the son of a bitch the yote will get away when the bulldog goes to get a better hold. 
 

 

Seen a video of a coyote making a mess of two pit bulls 

 

I'd imagine a dogo or ambull would be more suited?

[Bolero 67]

2 minutes ago, keepdiggin said:

Seen a video of a coyote making a mess of two pit bulls 

 

I'd imagine a dogo or ambull would be more suited?

I guess that would depend on what is being considered a pit bull. If calls dog a pit bull that means the dog is bred down from dogs of fighting stock. You might have to go as far as the fourth generation before seeing an actual bulldog but technically it is still an American pit bull terrier but in name only. Now as for a true Bulldog a few are still around and i only know of 3 people that have access to them who hog hunt. But the don’t strictly only use one type of dog. Any dog of any bred that can catch the way they want them to they will use. A few Coyotes from time to time have had the displeasure of thinking one of there bulldogs would be a quick easy meal 

[king 11,664]

25 minutes ago, Bolero said:

Yep. Baiting a dog is a fairly common tactic they use. They will get close and see whether or not the dog will give chase. If the dog goes for it they will keep enough distance between them and the dog where they are close enough so the dog thinks it has a chance of catching them. If the dog breaks off the chase sometimes they will stop and try teasing the dog again to chase them.  Just to give you an idea of how the speed of a coyote of a dog doesn’t have some type of running dog in the mix they ain’t catching them no way. Only time a dog like an American pit bull terrier can kill one is if the coyote is the one to engage and it does happen sometimes with the dogs in the 30-40 lb range. But most of the time of the bulldog doesn’t have a hard enough bite to one out the son of a bitch the yote will get away when the bulldog goes to get a better hold. 
 

 

Them coyotes are very clever fair play mate.

This is a good watch..

 

 

[Bolero 67]

On 25/02/2020 at 14:09, Rickshaw swami said:

American pitbull was a byproduct of the Great Famine in Ireland.They brought them here to America.Not trying to argue just wanted to state the fact. 

I won’t go back and forth arguing this but men  from England, Ireland and Scotland came over to America brought with them the pit dogs they owned from those countries. The history of these dogs is probably one of if the most well recorded of any breed. These dogs and the men that owned and matched them weren’t a very big group everyone pretty much knew each other. And good dogs weren’t a secret if there was a good in an area problem about the dog and most of the time saw how good they were themselves and the American breeders would find work for the owners of those good dogs and get work for them I’m exchange fro either the dog itself or to be able to breed to the dog. And they would also find work for there relatives if they would bring a few good dogs with them. A few of the best dog men were Cochran and Feeley who both immigrated here but ogre than them the it was the American dog men whose dogs we the foundation. Now obviously they all started out with imported dogs or lie I said earlier the dogs the came with the re owners who immigrated here. But it was ultimately dogs largely from the three place previously mentioned all interwoven together that becot be American pit Bull Terrier. Before that the dogs were very tightly bred and each family as in people had distinct there own distinct lines of dogs and wouldn’t outcross to anoth families line. 
 

All the dogs form the breed all go back to a relatively small group of dogs brought over here. Roughly 30 dogs or so that’s it. 
 

there was also plenty of times that the dogs still being bred in those countries came here to be matched into the dogs who had been bred here for generations and didn’t usually do very well

 

theres a reason why the American dogs were and are being imported back to those countries in the hope of making the dogs there better 

 

[Bolero 67]

On 25/02/2020 at 14:18, THE STIFFMEISTER said:

There were very good working terriers in the north of England long before the far modern import of the apbt 

keep believing what you want though 

You can lie to yourself all you want it’s okay by me but anyone on your side of the pond who takes the dogs seriously would wholeheartedly disagree with you. You guys can hate the name American pit bull terrier all you want but the facts are the dogs reached a whole different level in America and nothing can change that. Is it that big of deal really there are a bunch of working dog breeders in your country that a much better than the same breed in America 

[Bolero 67]

On 25/02/2020 at 15:50, THE STIFFMEISTER said:

You mean Boston as in after Boston lincs in England ? 

or New York As In after York , Yorkshire , England ? 

the east coast was full of English immigrants also before the potato famine , do you not think that well to do English people would not have taken over bull and terrier types as they settled in comfort rather than this romantic notion you have of penniless John paul mcguigan Landing In Charlestown harbour fresh from the horrors of famine with nothing else other than GR champ Donegal Tyson for company ? 

Behave 

Seeing as the likelihood hood that well to do types from either of those places actually owed a fighting bull terrier because it is very well known that the breed known as the bull terrier created by Hinks was never bred for the pit. What was known as the bull terrier by the men that actually used them in the pit which is was sole reason for there creation was not the same as the bull terrier show type 

[Bolero 67]

On 29/02/2020 at 14:10, Glyn..... said:

my take on terriers and the bull breeds is they are British , the Brittonic  people of the west of the country known as the uk ,Devon Cornwall Wales and Cumbria , as far back as roman times the British were famed for  bullmastiff types , then all the terriers breeds famed as workers at some point come from what is called Celtic Britain I wont bore you with a list but from badger digging to fox killing , then the early pit dogs hundreds of welsh moved to the English midlands , (many of whose  desendants return to the midlands of wales to this day on holiday a tradition which first started as the first workers return to see parents and grandparents) during the industrial revolution taking with them there terriers  these mixed with bulldog blood produced the first pits , depending on how they were then bred depended on size more bulldog or the bulldog greyhound crosses popular at the time produced larger animals , any that made to the USA or Canada did so with money people , then during world war one US troops bought and took back some of the finest English pit dogs  money could buy , this was repeated after the second world war and is well documented as far as terriers in Ireland many crossed over from Britain to Ireland about the same time a good friend of mines grt grt grandfather of the surname Case tells me 3 brothers came over to dig the canal from midlands to Llangollen ,  two returned , those returning took back dogs and horses to sell , the Irish working terriers of what ever color came from the UK ,

I’d say that is the best information I’ve read on origins of these dogs. I have always felt that various working terrier types were crossed to the bulldog and depending on one’s preference the percentages of terrier to bulldog would be different. Just based on there being dogs that were in the 60-70 lb range down to dogs as small as 12-15 lb is what makes me think some crosses were more terrier and others more bulldog and overtime all got mixed together. Old match reports show dogs from 12 lb all the way up to the 70lb plus range. Colby’s pincher fought close to 63 Lbs not 100% sure of the weight yet he produced a lot of dog’s in the 30lb range. I do know there are some very old books out there that aren’t just specifically about dogs but about sports and sporting men of England that have good information in them about the history of these dogs that mention some of the areas you said 

[Bolero 67]

On 01/03/2020 at 16:04, Hatch28 said:

APBT aren't truly game though can't take sharp teeth they go in all guns blazing but give them few hours with an opponent with pointy sharp teeth and see what happens, I've seen them crossed with really game pats in an attempt to bring up size, I've seen them work first season and jack then when pressure was put on. Ultimate not a word I'd use to describe them. 

What on the world did just say lmao. Your joking right. That has to be the most absurd think anyone who has ever said anything about dogs has ever written

there is not a single breed of dog more game than the American pit bull terrier. Now I’m talking the breed as a whole not as specific individuals. Now anyone who has any clue about gameness knows most won’t prove game but if a game dog is what you want then the American pit bull terrier is your best chance. Now there are those who feel that gameness can only be proven in the pit I’m not one of those people but the pit is definitely where it is proven the most. Occasionally it can be proven in a hog hunt but most are over to quickly. A dog being injured to the point where death is possible isn’t the only criteria needed to label a dog as game. Exhaustion as in the dog having been working for a long time plus degree of injury need to be present before saying a dog is game. Now obviously not every dog who has been going for an hour or more can be given that title as at times dogs have been at for one and a half hours and are barely hurt at all. So a person clearly would need to use there best judgment. Which is why if a person hasn’t seen with there own eyes  a dog that another Cala game take it with a grain of salt

[Bolero 67]

On 01/03/2020 at 17:36, Hatch28 said:

Alot of them die all right but I still don't class them truly game I've seen them out classed by similar type dogs, they just seem to lack something. 

Absolutely that must be why the men who actually put there money on the line to prove there dogs instead of talking out there ass use these similar type dogs you speak of instead of the dog that has been bred for that very task for the last 200 years lol. This ain’t a fairytale sunshine when a person who has a good amount of money on the line there is one dog that is used time and time again during the last centuries and that dog is the American pit bull terrier. Now I don’t think for a second that the amount of money being bet makes the quality of the dogs better in any way but when someone is willing to put down $6,000 and they actually work for a living so I’m not talking drug dealers or a criminal of any type you can bet your ass they are going to be using the dog that will give them the greatest chance of winning and like I said the dog they choose is the American pit bull terrier. If there was a breed of dog out there better suited then the serious dog man would be using that breed. People have tried the Tosa, presa Canaria, cane corso and a couple others and I’m talking actual sanctioned contract matches with referees and money down and the. American pit bull terrier came out on top every time. Now if a fighting Tosa and a game bred American pit bull terrier 10 of each were to be matched most likely the Tosa is going to win at the very least 9 of not all of them but that is also with quite a big weigh advantage usually 25 or more Lbs heavier

[Barrie 1,325]

On 02/02/2020 at 13:27, Rickshaw swami said:

Is there anyway to build a terrier backpack it would really help if y'all have any suggestions Thanks

Sorry R.S. but I only just picked up on this post.

I don't know if this is of any help at all, it's a card I received from Sweden several years back.....

Apparently it's called a "roe sack" over here, but I'm not a deer stalker and don't know any more than that.

If it is the sort of thing you're looking for then, maybe this will be of some interest, or give you some ideas.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Jack-Pyke-Canvas-Roe-Sack-Heavy-Game-Bag-Hunt-Shoot-JRUCCANROE/352958676976?epid=11011330297&hash=item522df9fff0:g:bwkAAOSwORFfV5Y6

Y.I.S. Barrie

Edited December 18, 2020 by Barrie

[Bolero 67]

On 01/03/2020 at 18:33, Aussie Whip said:

I know what you mean,English staffs I feel are tougher in the way they can take punishment without reacting.A lot of apbt's I've seen are highly intelligent dogs which may come across as lacking dedication.

Would you mind saying where these American pit bull terriers came from. I’m not trying to be a jerk. American pit bull terriers that are being bred specifically for being used in contracted matches with specific rules and referees and can be traced all the way back to the dogs that were first brought here. Those are the dogs people who actually work them are referring to as American pit bull terriers and anything other than that has no reason to be using that name. When there are multiple records of these dogs in a match that is 2 hours long or more no I’m not saying this is a regular occurrence but it is something that has happened a few atleast a few dozen times and can be verified. So when a person says such and such dog of x breed is more game in there opinion I just wonder what that opinion is actually based on

[Rickshaw swami 3,918]

Thanks Mr Barrie 

That definitely helps.I will order one today. I've been looking for one but didn't know it was called a roe sack.

[Bolero 67]

On 02/03/2020 at 05:56, Bosun11 said:

Always wondered what them Henry dogs Earl Tudor used were/are.

IMO few dogs made the trip stateside in the coffin ships, nor many with any immigrants, heading for a new life. They were more concered with finding food and a life for themselves and their families to worry about sporting dogs.

I believe the dogs went over with people who had more coin.

Money men have always had more than an interest in game dogs and in the new world, with its masses of immigrants and poverty, not only in the big citys but in every unlawful town, there was more money to be made.

I can’t say with 100% certainty as I was not around then or even close to being born lol  but I live only half an hour from Lou colby when he was alive and spent some time there over the years and I will say his father and him felt it was very important to keep accurate records about the dogs. From what John P Colby, Lou’s father had written about the dogs he start with and where they came from and from who the men were the working class sort very skillful in the trades carpentry and stuff like that. A lot of the dogs he got or bred to were because if he knew of any work available and if he could he would get the men who owned dogs he like the job on return for either being allowed to breed to there dog or if they were willing give him the dog. Occasionally these men also had family who were in the dogs also and he would line them up a job for the same deal. Also like someone else posted guys who fought in WWI and WWII also brought dogs back with them. And there were also a few like Jim Corchoran and Felley who were immigrants and those two were two of the best breeders of these dogs and had a large impact on the formation of the breed in America. As far as people of wealth with the dogs i have no information about that. Also not sure what you are considering as wealthy. Middle class definitely but upper class I would be very surprised if they had any part 

[Bolero 67]

On 02/03/2020 at 17:00, Bosun11 said:

Rickshaw,

If you got any more direct info on Earl Tudor, I and i'm sure a few more would like to hear it.

Of all the men in that game, i find him the most facinating. Maybe not on this thread but have a think about it and put sommat up.

I never met the man myself but I know Danny Burton who was like a son to him. From what he has told me. And also stuff I read he was definitely a hard man also he was a bootlegger so I guess could be considered a gangster. I would say he was more or less like most men from that era though. He was married and most of his living was made from the chickens and the dogs. Prohibition didn’t last very long so the money maid form that was only a few years. He definitely was a no bullshit kind of guy and didn’t sugar coat stuff. If he didn’t like a person they knew it and he did kill at least one man that i know of from why Danny said and it was i believe I’m a newspaper or something from that time period. It was in self defense though form what I was told. Danny told me that he was the type of guy that if you were straight with him and had showed respect not necessarily to him but I’m general he would show a man the same

[Bolero 67]

On 03/03/2020 at 14:23, SheepChaser said:

Isn't Gameness, fighting in a situation or with an opponent, where you are equally or out matched, and still going in hard and fighting on regardless of the outcome.

I.e Bull x with a fox, not the same as a bull vs bull go equal of greater ability, and continuing on when the chips are down.

That’s what I was taught lol. Most feel that the pit is the only test for it. There thinking is because the dogs involved both have the desire to be there and for lack of a better word choose to be there. Now I understand it is the person who sets up the situation but there is nothing keeping the dogs there other than themselves. Most matches took place in rural areas outside and within the pit walls being only 2 feet high a dog would very easily be able to jump out and make a break for it never to be seen again lol. They feel that hog hunting does really test a dog hard enough and more than a few guys I have known even think it is actually cruel because the hog doesn’t want to be there and does have a choice and if they have the chance they do usually run away. Of course the hog will defend themselves and fight back but from the hunts I went on with a friend the boar when give the opportunity takes off and only stops to fight when either backed into a corner per se or are tore from being chased for some time and to fight back is the best option at the time. 
 

now I definitely think there are examples of dogs who atleast in my opinion have shown a degree of gameness in both hog hunting for a catch dog and a I have known a couple terriers that i feel have earned the title of being game

but I would definitely say the pit is where whether or not a dog is game will be seen most often