Controversial !

[DogMan85 722]

 

 

Has anyone heard of the Chongqing dog of China? It's clear to see this ancient breed has a connection with the Bull-type dogs IMO.

I haven't heard of the Chongging dog. There is a Chincha Bulldog mentioned in Dr. Dieter Fleig's Fighting Dog Breeds. They existed in Peru from the period 1100 to 1470 AD, long before Pizarro destroyed the Inca culture in 1533. Fleig uses it as an example of the school of thought that dog types in many places of the world have arisen completely independently of one-another. The Bull and greyhound type maybe more than others.

I think they have too much of a resemblance to each other to believe that school of thought.

[rob284 1,678]

As far as I'm aware it's new stuff. About his life in hunt service. We'll worth a read IMO

my sub ran out a few months ago, the articles poste md up until then were reprints from his old books.

[Glyn..... 5,199]

Blue Pauls, were a huge Scotish fighting dog that was long gone before Breay was born.

Yes they were reputed to be dead game but too big and heavy to be of any use in the pits of the south (where the money was) and so died out.

 

If any proof is needed then look to their cousin, the (british) bulldog. That poor b*****d hung around long enough for the kennel club to form and get their grubby little mitts on it and turn it into the monstrosity we see today.

More than any other breed, the bulldog has been fecked by those show nutters because of what it was/is and how people covert that type of dog and you dont have to think too hard that if the Blue Paul was around it would have gone the same way!!!

 

Westmoorland didnt shoot Breays dogs but Breays daughter and son-in-law may have...

BN got Biddie and was able to use Rusty because RW let him RW white sports went south and pepped up some white lines as well

[DogMan85 722]

Didn't BN's Grandfather add small Pit dogs into the mix?

[Daniel cain 42,893]

We're they a red brindle colour ?

[eastcoast 3,729]

 

As far as I'm aware it's new stuff. About his life in hunt service. We'll worth a read IMO

my sub ran out a few months ago, the articles poste md up until then were reprints from his old books.

 

You're right rob284 but the last few articles I haven't seen elsewhere. I could be wrong. As much as I've enjoyed reading them they do piss me off in a way. Even allowing for poetic license it seems like the man lived and breathed terriers and hounds in his younger days. Lived life doing what he loved. How many can say that ? Not me. Not then. Let " real life " get in the way. :-)

[tinytiger 822]

 

 

Has anyone heard of the Chongqing dog of China? It's clear to see this ancient breed has a connection with the Bull-type dogs IMO.

I haven't heard of the Chongging dog. There is a Chincha Bulldog mentioned in Dr. Dieter Fleig's Fighting Dog Breeds. They existed in Peru from the period 1100 to 1470 AD, long before Pizarro destroyed the Inca culture in 1533. Fleig uses it as an example of the school of thought that dog types in many places of the world have arisen completely independently of one-another. The Bull and greyhound type maybe more than others.

did they peruvians not have chinese bantams as well.theres a very good book about chinese world exploration by a british navy guy called menzies(i think)

[DogMan85 722]

So we've come to the conclusion that Bull type dogs were added into the working Terrier mix and working Terriers were crossed with Bull type dogs back in the day, funny old game this dog one......

[Bosun11 537]

 

Blue Pauls, were a huge Scotish fighting dog that was long gone before Breay was born.

Yes they were reputed to be dead game but too big and heavy to be of any use in the pits of the south (where the money was) and so died out.

If any proof is needed then look to their cousin, the (british) bulldog. That poor b*****d hung around long enough for the kennel club to form and get their grubby little mitts on it and turn it into the monstrosity we see today.

More than any other breed, the bulldog has been fecked by those show nutters because of what it was/is and how people covert that type of dog and you dont have to think too hard that if the Blue Paul was around it would have gone the same way!!!

Westmoorland didnt shoot Breays dogs but Breays daughter and son-in-law may have...

It's all romance pal, the vast majority of APBT'S are not Dead Game in fact most will quit under the right circumstances.

The facts are if the Blue Paul was in any way superior to the dogs over here their influence would be a lot more prevalent in that field.

Only used the words dead game in context, as it had been used earlier.

And my point was/is that the Blue Paul was inferior or it would still be around today, bastardised by the kennel club but still around..!

[DogMan85 722]

 

 

Blue Pauls, were a huge Scotish fighting dog that was long gone before Breay was born.

Yes they were reputed to be dead game but too big and heavy to be of any use in the pits of the south (where the money was) and so died out.

If any proof is needed then look to their cousin, the (british) bulldog. That poor b*****d hung around long enough for the kennel club to form and get their grubby little mitts on it and turn it into the monstrosity we see today.

More than any other breed, the bulldog has been fecked by those show nutters because of what it was/is and how people covert that type of dog and you dont have to think too hard that if the Blue Paul was around it would have gone the same way!!!

Westmoorland didnt shoot Breays dogs but Breays daughter and son-in-law may have...

It's all romance pal, the vast majority of APBT'S are not Dead Game in fact most will quit under the right circumstances.

The facts are if the Blue Paul was in any way superior to the dogs over here their influence would be a lot more prevalent in that field.

Only used the words dead game in context, as it had been used earlier.

And my point was/is that the Blue Paul was inferior or it would still be around today, bastardised by the kennel club but still around..!

I wish I was around back then to try and find what really went on back then. The story of Terriers being crossed with the Bulldog to create a superior fighting dog doesn't quite add up to me but there's that much evidence to support it it must be true.

[p3d 879]

So we've come to the conclusion that Bull type dogs were added into the working Terrier mix and working Terriers were crossed with Bull type dogs back in the day, funny old game this dog one......

 

DogMan85,

Unfortunately not everyone sees it that way.

 

It is easy for some to accept that Bull blood was added "a hundred years ago" but not to accept that it was added 30 years ago.

It offends some terriermen to believe that "their line" has bull blood in it, even when its plain to see the bull influence in the dogs.

So a "Blue Poll" might be acceptable but a Staff or EBT is out of the question. What a load of cobblers.

 

IMHO it is not a bad mark against a working terrier strain if bull blood is evident, if that is what the breeder wants to do.

But some guys are afraid to admit it. (even some of the big names are prone to this)

you could point at a dog and ask the owner "how was the bull blood added to your terrier" to get the answer "there is no bull blood in my dog"

 

What has always held my interest was HOW a breeder did it.

Some breeders have the knowledge to breed in what they want from the bull type AND keep the size down.

That to me is what men like Breay and Nuttall did well. each had there own method but each was successful in what they wanted to do.

But that is just my opinion and there are many others.

[Bosun11 537]

No different to these days i recon, choc full of blaggers, liers and bullshitters, with a smattering of genuine blokes holding it all up... Be careful what you wish for....

[DogMan85 722]

 

 

Blue Pauls, were a huge Scotish fighting dog that was long gone before Breay was born.

Yes they were reputed to be dead game but too big and heavy to be of any use in the pits of the south (where the money was) and so died out.

If any proof is needed then look to their cousin, the (british) bulldog. That poor b*****d hung around long enough for the kennel club to form and get their grubby little mitts on it and turn it into the monstrosity we see today.

More than any other breed, the bulldog has been fecked by those show nutters because of what it was/is and how people covert that type of dog and you dont have to think too hard that if the Blue Paul was around it would have gone the same way!!!

Westmoorland didnt shoot Breays dogs but Breays daughter and son-in-law may have...

It's all romance pal, the vast majority of APBT'S are not Dead Game in fact most will quit under the right circumstances.

The facts are if the Blue Paul was in any way superior to the dogs over here their influence would be a lot more prevalent in that field.

Only used the words dead game in context, as it had been used earlier.

And my point was/is that the Blue Paul was inferior or it would still be around today, bastardised by the kennel club but still around..!

I wish I was around back then to try and find what really went on back then. The story of Terriers being crossed with the Bulldog to create a superior fighting dog doesn't quite add up to me but there's that much evidence to support it it must be true.

[DogMan85 722]

 

 

So we've come to the conclusion that Bull type dogs were added into the working Terrier mix and working Terriers were crossed with Bull type dogs back in the day, funny old game this dog one......

DogMan85,

Unfortunately not everyone sees it that way.

 

It is easy for some to accept that Bull blood was added "a hundred years ago" but not to accept that it was added 30 years ago.

It offends some terriermen to believe that "their line" has bull blood in it, even when its plain to see the bull influence in the dogs.

So a "Blue Poll" might be acceptable but a Staff or EBT is out of the question. What a load of cobblers.

 

IMHO it is not a bad mark against a working terrier strain if bull blood is evident, if that is what the breeder wants to do.

But some guys are afraid to admit it. (even some of the big names are prone to this)

you could point at a dog and ask the owner "how was the bull blood added to your terrier" to get the answer "there is no bull blood in my dog"

 

What has always held my interest was HOW a breeder did it.

Some breeders have the knowledge to breed in what they want from the bull type AND keep the size down.

That to me is what men like Breay and Nuttall did well. each had there own method but each was successful in what they wanted to do.

But that is just my opinion and there are many others.

If they want to kid themselves then that's up to them but it's blatantly obvious a lot of the dogs around today have a strong Bull base behind them.

[tinytiger 822]

 

 

So we've come to the conclusion that Bull type dogs were added into the working Terrier mix and working Terriers were crossed with Bull type dogs back in the day, funny old game this dog one......

DogMan85,

Unfortunately not everyone sees it that way.

 

It is easy for some to accept that Bull blood was added "a hundred years ago" but not to accept that it was added 30 years ago.

It offends some terriermen to believe that "their line" has bull blood in it, even when its plain to see the bull influence in the dogs.

So a "Blue Poll" might be acceptable but a Staff or EBT is out of the question. What a load of cobblers.

 

IMHO it is not a bad mark against a working terrier strain if bull blood is evident, if that is what the breeder wants to do.

But some guys are afraid to admit it. (even some of the big names are prone to this)

you could point at a dog and ask the owner "how was the bull blood added to your terrier" to get the answer "there is no bull blood in my dog"

 

What has always held my interest was HOW a breeder did it.

Some breeders have the knowledge to breed in what they want from the bull type AND keep the size down.

That to me is what men like Breay and Nuttall did well. each had there own method but each was successful in what they wanted to do.

But that is just my opinion and there are many others.

go back another hundred years add another bit of bull...go back another hundred add another bit..both ways-probably years ago people werent as fuked in the head about breeding-if they worked-nice one-if they didnt cull and try again..could be pom blood in all our workers for all we know-does it matter at this stage?