Trump Under Fire

[ChrisJones 7,973]

Just now, Neobliviscaris1776 said:

I suppose, there's only two options.

Either you reduce big government and its ownership of land across the country

Or

You don't

What are the arguments for more land being owned by the federal government?

1

Owned by the federal government means they're custodians on behalf of the people. These are public lands. They're not owned by the government in the way they are in the UK. They're proposing the privatisation of these public lands for parcelling off for private interests. Selling off the family silver essentially, except that these native tribes have a legitimate right to their land.

It's like on other threads on THL where the complaint is the erosion of traditional rights and ways of living. That's what's happening here only their activism is now in person. What Don has done is seize several million acres because he doesn't think it should be available to people it belongs to. If you look at native rights in the US the action hasn't gone unnoticed either.

[JohnGalway 1,043]

10 hours ago, VOON said:

http://www.thejournal.ie/trump-wall-clare-2-3206297-Jan2017/

Good God, myself and An Taisce on the same side. I feel dirty all over. 

[green lurchers 16,369]

 

obama care obama phone load of shit  obama let the fkers in trump boot the freeloaders out 

Edited December 6, 2017 by green lurchers

[VOON 1,313]

7 hours ago, ChrisJones said:

Is this the dry run for Mexico?

It's a crackdown on all the crack their carrying in on the waves....destroying the youth of Clare.......

[Neobliviscaris1776 1,998]

7 hours ago, ChrisJones said:

Owned by the federal government means they're custodians on behalf of the people. These are public lands. They're not owned by the government in the way they are in the UK. They're proposing the privatisation of these public lands for parcelling off for private interests. Selling off the family silver essentially, except that these native tribes have a legitimate right to their land.

It's like on other threads on THL where the complaint is the erosion of traditional rights and ways of living. That's what's happening here only their activism is now in person. What Don has done is seize several million acres because he doesn't think it should be available to people it belongs to. If you look at native rights in the US the action hasn't gone unnoticed either.

It is interesting how things are playing out. But if the land is owned by the government and its now going to be released from government control to the open market it can hardly be classed as Trump seizing it if he is releasing it. That's was true capitalism is, an open market. Looks like he can't win either way. 

[KES2 171]

It all seems unreal to me. You have a president who lies, cheats and misrepresents and perjures himself - his family is little better. No-one in the US has this guy dead to rights yet but Mueller will get there. There was collusion, for collusion there had to be a benefit to those US personnel colluding on behalf of The Big Fart, apart from power it must be the ability to change something huge to benefit himself - building on wilderness, benefiting from a massive reduction in corporation tax or something yet to come ?

No second term likely so it wont be long in coming - maybe we will get a tweet first - makes a change from a ***t all of the tme.

[ChrisJones 7,973]

1 hour ago, Neobliviscaris1776 said:

It is interesting how things are playing out. But if the land is owned by the government and its now going to be released from government control to the open market it can hardly be classed as Trump seizing it if he is releasing it. That's was true capitalism is, an open market. Looks like he can't win either way. 

The land had been returned to the native tribe coalitions under the Antiquities Act. It contains thousands of archaeological sites and is sacred ground for the native community. Not to mention the tens of thousands of fossils that have benefited the scientific community also. The designation of the monument is to protect the site from looting and development. It can also hardly be a coincidence that the Grand Staircase monument's reduction is down to the coal seam that's been found on the land. The land was already designated for other purposes that benefit the public interest.

If he hasn't seized it how would you define it?

I see what you're saying about true capitalism but he's Donald Custodian Of The Monument when he's in public office, not Donald Real Estate Mogul. He is currently a public servant. His job is to serve the people not to further the position of lobbyists, and the tourism dollars from these monuments outstrip mineral extraction by roughly 7 to 1. If you're attempting to maximize your profits under true capitalism them surely you'd take the most profitable revenue stream over a quick land flip? As a libertarian, I can accept the value of property rights but again this is public land being managed by public officials for the benefit of the public. It's our land too. Would you think it's acceptable to reduce Snowdonia, or the Peak District, by 80% and sell off the difference for luxury housing and possible mining operations? He can win both ways by honouring his commitment to his office, the people he allegedly represents,  and by looking towards sustainable economic development which will benefit everyone in the community rather than a small band of shareholders.

Tourism in the state of Utah has been proven time and time again to be a massive multi-million dollar economic engine and these decisions simply don't stand up to scrutiny from someone who is supposed to be a business genius, but more of cronyism from a guy that's been bankrupt on six different occasions.

Edited December 6, 2017 by ChrisJones

[JohnGalway 1,043]

Most interesting thing I've heard about this debacle lately, is Mike Pence' named in relation to Muellers investigations. Now that IS interesting, if the VP get's taken out before the aptly named above "Big Fart".

Who is third in line? Jem'Hadar Ryan, Turkey neck McConnell?

[Neobliviscaris1776 1,998]

9 hours ago, ChrisJones said:

The land had been returned to the native tribe coalitions under the Antiquities Act. It contains thousands of archaeological sites and is sacred ground for the native community. Not to mention the tens of thousands of fossils that have benefited the scientific community also. The designation of the monument is to protect the site from looting and development. It can also hardly be a coincidence that the Grand Staircase monument's reduction is down to the coal seam that's been found on the land. The land was already designated for other purposes that benefit the public interest.

If he hasn't seized it how would you define it?

I see what you're saying about true capitalism but he's Donald Custodian Of The Monument when he's in public office, not Donald Real Estate Mogul. He is currently a public servant. His job is to serve the people not to further the position of lobbyists, and the tourism dollars from these monuments outstrip mineral extraction by roughly 7 to 1. If you're attempting to maximize your profits under true capitalism them surely you'd take the most profitable revenue stream over a quick land flip? As a libertarian, I can accept the value of property rights but again this is public land being managed by public officials for the benefit of the public. It's our land too. Would you think it's acceptable to reduce Snowdonia, or the Peak District, by 80% and sell off the difference for luxury housing and possible mining operations? He can win both ways by honouring his commitment to his office, the people he allegedly represents,  and by looking towards sustainable economic development which will benefit everyone in the community rather than a small band of shareholders.

Tourism in the state of Utah has been proven time and time again to be a massive multi-million dollar economic engine and these decisions simply don't stand up to scrutiny from someone who is supposed to be a business genius, but more of cronyism from a guy that's been bankrupt on six different occasions.

Over his eight years in office, Obama designated more monuments — for a total of 553 million acres — than any of his predecessors. How much land does the government need? I appreciate they will say it's for the people to use and benefit from, but in truth we know ultimately the people have little say or power to change anything they order. 553 million acres is crazy.

Regarding Trump. If the land is no longer under federal control, then it is being released. If it was being 'seized' then it would be unavailable to others. Just clever words being thrown about in a context where they don't belong....seized... monuments. A monument sounds very grandiose, however in this context it just means a piece of land that some consider important.

If you are to give the power back to the people then you have to shrink government Property, government regulations and the powers they have over resources. There's no other way.

So Trump is reducing this and it's clear he's on the right track because every tom dick and Harry is as usual in opposition to reducing(not seizing) government power.

 

[WILF 44,329]

I’m not very up on the technical details of things but I just use a simple rule of thumb.....if every politician, actor, journalist and “rights” campaigner thinks Trump is getting it wrong on some matter.......then he must be getting it right ! Lol 

[Neobliviscaris1776 1,998]

41 minutes ago, WILF said:

I’m not very up on the technical details of things but I just use a simple rule of thumb.....if every politician, actor, journalist and “rights” campaigner thinks Trump is getting it wrong on some matter.......then he must be getting it right ! Lol 

?

[ChrisJones 7,973]

5 hours ago, Neobliviscaris1776 said:

Over his eight years in office, Obama designated more monuments — for a total of 553 million acres — than any of his predecessors. How much land does the government need? I appreciate they will say it's for the people to use and benefit from, but in truth we know ultimately the people have little say or power to change anything they order. 553 million acres is crazy.

Regarding Trump. If the land is no longer under federal control, then it is being released. If it was being 'seized' then it would be unavailable to others. Just clever words being thrown about in a context where they don't belong....seized... monuments. A monument sounds very grandiose, however in this context it just means a piece of land that some consider important.

If you are to give the power back to the people then you have to shrink government Property, government regulations and the powers they have over resources. There's no other way.

So Trump is reducing this and it's clear he's on the right track because every tom dick and Harry is as usual in opposition to reducing(not seizing) government power.

 

We'll simply have to agree to disagree on this. I hear you on reduced government you're absolutely correct but in any other context, this would be mismanagement of public funds for reasons I've already pointed out. This isn't about clever words it's about piss poor business. If you fact check Trump's reason for this it's purely to undo an Obama and Clinton era ruling. These are actually something they did right. This is a bad move from the Trump administration how ever you spin it.

4 hours ago, WILF said:

I’m not very up on the technical details of things but I just use a simple rule of thumb.....if every politician, actor, journalist and “rights” campaigner thinks Trump is getting it wrong on some matter.......then he must be getting it right ! Lol 

You're a businessman managing the assets of millions of people. Do you go for long-term profit and sustainability or quick flip to line your own pockets?

[WILF 44,329]

Let me think about that for a second my friend !!

[ChrisJones 7,973]

In some good news, the House Of Representatives has passed a bill that would allow federal reciprocity of concealed carry permits. This means that anyone in any state with the correct permits would be allowed to carry a concealed firearm in every other state. It's expected to have a tougher time passing in the Senate though...

[VOON 1,313]

http://www.thejournal.ie/surfers-doonbeg-wall-trump-3732085-Dec2017/