Hare Shoots On Estates.

[dodger 2,668]

A lot a doggin lads ain't much better goin out in the summer runnin pregnant hares fat hares n leverets 2 dogs on one rabbit n all that, agree tho I don't like these big hare shoots but i have no problem at all with shooting and a lot of these shoots are as said to keep dog lads off especially when drivin crops n they in turn wreck the job for the good dog lads that try n do the job right..

[delswal 3,817]

Personally I don't think the coursing mans hatred of hare shooting is a hatred of shooting. It's respect for the hare, which IMO is understandable.

You rear a well bred pup, feed it the best, keep it healthy and when the time comes walk the legs of yourself to get it as fit as possible only to watch a small brown animal make it look foolish, LOL.

But it's the truth.

To a shooting man, and I'm one, the hare is a large slow (by shooting standards) target so any shooting man who thinks he's a marksman by shooting hares is fooling himself.

If a job needs doing so be it but some methods deserve to be called a sport more than others.

Fair comment Neil, as a shooter myself I don't see hare drives as sport, but a control measure and have never participated. Without cutting the throat of shooters when do you define shooting animals as sport? Is shooting a deer sport? Does a roe have a sporting chance against a .308 ? Does a reared pheasant flying straight over a line of guns have a sporting chance ? I don't look at what I do as a sport, it's something I enjoy doing....A pass time, Hunting and shooting if I want sport I will buy a tennis racket god forbid.

[Born Hunter 17,640]

For me, if you enjoy whatever you are doing it's sport. Ratting in a totally enclosed outbuilding with 100% kill rate can be sport, doesn't mean it's sporting though. That's just my thinking. Sporting should be saved to describe a hunt that obeys the ethics of 'fair chase' and by it's nature gives the quarry a good chance of escape.

 

Is driven hare shooting sport? To those that enjoy it yes......... Is it sporting? Not if you're anywhere close to an average shot and have your walking and standing lines set up properly.......... It's generally designed not to be (in the East Midlands February type hare shoots anyway)!

Edited October 5, 2016 by Born Hunter

[desertbred 5,490]

No comment appears to be calling for Bans on any ones particular country pass times. How ever it is abundantly clear from past history where knives were drawn and whose backs they were firmly planted in. Hunting with dogs was deliberately targeted by the introduction of the Hunting Act because basically working dog lads are considered Easy targets by the LACS, Antis the Police and the Courts. Get caught tress passing in search of game you can be left with a criminal record have your dogs and vehicles confiscated, be banned from Driving, have Banning orders issued forbidding you from entering certain Counties or even being in a car with hunting dogs.Thieves and Burglars how many get Banning orders, vehicles impounded , driving Bans etc not many ? To many groups and associations were busy trying to do back door deals to protect their own particular activities and perfectly willing to remain inactive or silent whilst others had draconian restrictions and laws imposed on them. The lads on here who played active roles in the Demonstrations pre 2005 Hunting Ban will be able to point to the betrayals and back stabbing that was evident back in the day., the Unity folk talk about has to be a reciprocal agreement that benefits all not just those with powerful lobbies or plenty of cash to splash around. Lots of dog lads offered to pay licence fees to be able to work and hunt their dogs, these were ignored. The back door legislation known as the Hunting Act basically forbade lads to carry on centuries old country activities and made many into law breakers. The age old poaching activities increased dramatically after the Ban as legitimate permissions were taken away . The Driving the land escalated after the Ban lads have always hunted and always will but why should they be made Criminals yet others by a Birth right or what ever can follow their own activities killing the same quarry as those persecuted for hunting the same thing as others shoot only instead of a gun they use a dog.

Edited October 5, 2016 by desertbred

[Phil Lloyd 10,736]

The lurcher man has always walked alone,...and will probably always have to...

[Born Hunter 17,640]

No comment appears to be calling for Bans on any ones particular country pass times. How ever it is abundantly clear from past history where knives were drawn and whose backs they were firmly planted in. Hunting with dogs was deliberately targeted by the introduction of the Hunting Act because basically working dog lads are considered Easy targets by the LACS, Antis the Police and the Courts. Get caught tress passing in search of game you can be left with a criminal record have your dogs and vehicles confiscated, be banned from Driving, have Banning orders issued forbidding you from entering certain Counties or even being in a car with hunting dogs.Thieves and Burglars how many get Banning orders, vehicles impounded , driving Bans etc not many ? To many groups and associations were busy trying to do back door deals to protect their own particular activities and perfectly willing to remain inactive or silent whilst others had draconian restrictions and laws imposed on them. The lads on here who played active roles in the Demonstrations pre 2005 Hunting Ban will be able to point to the betrayals and back stabbing that was evident back in the day., the Unity folk talk about has to be a reciprocal agreement that benefits all not just those with powerful lobbies or plenty of cash to splash around. Lots of dog lads offered to pay licence fees to be able to work and hunt their dogs, these were ignored. The back door legislation known as the Hunting Act basically forbade lads to carry on centuries old country activities and made many into law breakers. The age old poaching activities increased dramatically after the Ban as legitimate permissions were taken away . The Driving the land escalated after the Ban lads have always hunted and always will but why should they be made Criminals yet others by a Birth right or what ever can follow their own activities killing the same quarry as those persecuted for hunting the same thing as others shoot only instead of a gun they use a dog.

 

They shouldn't have been DB! Simple as that. You boys that legitimately pursue the hare through your own sport should never have been persecuted in the way you/we were. Whether you form syndicates and get legitimacy through sporting rent payed to landowners/occupiers and licensing or simply through free permission, all things being respectful and mindful of your environment you should never have been criminalised.

 

Sad fact is, as a relative minority who were/are largely seen as a problem due to most interactions with others being poaching and general trouble around that, other factions within the countryside and countrysports community either outcast you or would be happy to see it go. That's f***ing shite but I see first hand why some feel that way. Rarely a week goes by when I'm not being told by keeper/farmer/landowner/mate about them having to deal with dogmen. "Having to? What about lads on foot, who they hurting?" I hear you say. Sadly the attitude is that anything short of zero tolerance then they might as well not bother.

 

It's become an incestuous cycle. Walk the land and get caught, so use 4x4s to avoid getting caught but create even more antipathy from the other communities that it affects.

 

All that said, I don't know of any shooting man that supports the Hunting Act or a specific ban on coursing hares. Those that have issues with poaching don't see any sense in banning the lads that go about things legitimately.

Edited October 5, 2016 by Born Hunter

[curdog 17]

 

 

just want to know we often hear about driven hare shoots and 100s of hares being shot on estates in a season over in england.has any legal irish coursing club or clubs or any one indivudal ever tried to catch these hares for release in ireland.would they survive.i know they are a different breed of hare to whats here in ireland. it just seems to be an awful waste of beautiful running machine.

They would survive perfectly well in the Irish countryside as there's a small population of Brown Hares in the North but for a club affiliated to the ICC to do it they would probably be breaking the law and it would also give ammunition to the antis.

Also seeing as the Irish Hare is a protected Animal..I believe introducing the Brown hare could dwindle the numbers of pure irish hares as well making hybrid crosses

[morton 5,367]

just want to know we often hear about driven hare shoots and 100s of hares being shot on estates in a season over in england.has any legal irish coursing club or clubs or any one indivudal ever tried to catch these hares for release in ireland.would they survive.i know they are a different breed of hare to whats here in ireland. it just seems to be an awful waste of beautiful running machine.

The Altcar estate used to hold regular Hare shoots and Coursing meets,to many Hares meant for poorer Coursing meets and Hares prone to more disease.If the Hare population is managed efficiently it used to serve all interested parties.Now,because of the ignorance of the ban,the gun is the recognised tool of control.I hate to see the carnage inflicted by the gun,i hate more that its legal to massacre vast numbers of Hares with a gun and illegal to catch a few in a more sporting canine manner.As others have stated many landowners now seem to have a policy of kill em hard rather than suffer the scourge of the feckwit minority with Lurchers.Hares were bagged and transported by many an interested party,the degree of success will be dependant on the suitability of the release site to sustain a breeding nucleus of released Hares.

[stonewall 1,913]

 

just want to know we often hear about driven hare shoots and 100s of hares being shot on estates in a season over in england.has any legal irish coursing club or clubs or any one indivudal ever tried to catch these hares for release in ireland.would they survive.i know they are a different breed of hare to whats here in ireland. it just seems to be an awful waste of beautiful running machine.

They would survive perfectly well in the Irish countryside as there's a small population of Brown Hares in the North but for a club affiliated to the ICC to do it they would probably be breaking the law and it would also give ammunition to the antis.

 

cheers neil for clearing that up.you would think though that catching hares from certain death when shot on a drive relocating them would be the right thing to do.we dont hear antis flying that flag.

[low plains drifter 9,498]

 

 

just want to know we often hear about driven hare shoots and 100s of hares being shot on estates in a season over in england.has any legal irish coursing club or clubs or any one indivudal ever tried to catch these hares for release in ireland.would they survive.i know they are a different breed of hare to whats here in ireland. it just seems to be an awful waste of beautiful running machine.

 

They would survive perfectly well in the Irish countryside as there's a small population of Brown Hares in the North but for a club affiliated to the ICC to do it they would probably be breaking the law and it would also give ammunition to the antis.

cheers neil for clearing that up.you would think though that catching hares from certain death when shot on a drive relocating them would be the right thing to do.we dont hear antis flying that flag.

 

 

just want to know we often hear about driven hare shoots and 100s of hares being shot on estates in a season over in england.has any legal irish coursing club or clubs or any one indivudal ever tried to catch these hares for release in ireland.would they survive.i know they are a different breed of hare to whats here in ireland. it just seems to be an awful waste of beautiful running machine.

 

They would survive perfectly well in the Irish countryside as there's a small population of Brown Hares in the North but for a club affiliated to the ICC to do it they would probably be breaking the law and it would also give ammunition to the antis.

cheers neil for clearing that up.you would think though that catching hares from certain death when shot on a drive relocating them would be the right thing to do.we dont hear antis flying that flag.

Do the antis ever attempt to do anything in the way of conservation ?

[neil cooney 10,415]

 

 

 

just want to know we often hear about driven hare shoots and 100s of hares being shot on estates in a season over in england.has any legal irish coursing club or clubs or any one indivudal ever tried to catch these hares for release in ireland.would they survive.i know they are a different breed of hare to whats here in ireland. it just seems to be an awful waste of beautiful running machine.

They would survive perfectly well in the Irish countryside as there's a small population of Brown Hares in the North but for a club affiliated to the ICC to do it they would probably be breaking the law and it would also give ammunition to the antis.

cheers neil for clearing that up.you would think though that catching hares from certain death when shot on a drive relocating them would be the right thing to do.we dont hear antis flying that flag.

 

 

just want to know we often hear about driven hare shoots and 100s of hares being shot on estates in a season over in england.has any legal irish coursing club or clubs or any one indivudal ever tried to catch these hares for release in ireland.would they survive.i know they are a different breed of hare to whats here in ireland. it just seems to be an awful waste of beautiful running machine.

They would survive perfectly well in the Irish countryside as there's a small population of Brown Hares in the North but for a club affiliated to the ICC to do it they would probably be breaking the law and it would also give ammunition to the antis.

cheers neil for clearing that up.you would think though that catching hares from certain death when shot on a drive relocating them would be the right thing to do.we dont hear antis flying that flag.

Do the antis ever attempt to do anything in the way of conservation ?

 

Yes, they try to stop us controlling foxes, Government organisations pump out predators such as buzzards and pine martens and they try to stop coursing meets, who are in reality, the only folk who try to keep hare numbers up.

[Qbgrey 3,989]

lurchers boys doing it properly or wankers driving crops will allways be looked down on.walk alone is too true.i keep my nose out of other peoples sports or business,to many do gooders poking thier long noses in.i dont like the greed side of shooting,paying to shoot 100s of birds,hares etc ,but i wont interfere and try and ban it.

[Greyman 25,367]

It seems the almost perfect answer is relocation, that if done correctly almost always works. However, relocation does not answer the question of why the original hares died out. It is almost certain that the same will happen with the relocated hares. Find the cause of the decline in the original population and fix that. There are many reasons for a decline of hares in an area, mostly I would say it's Silage cutting as it kills the leverets. Unkeepered ground, the decline of the lapwing all contribute to the decline of the hare. That is without the pressures put on them by a man and his dog.

TC

. One of the biggest causes in my opinion is frecking badgers, I wander far and wide on my travels and the one thing that is clear to me is the more badgers on the land the less hares, I,ve also seen the growth of badger populations decimate areas once rich in hares, leverets are just eaten before they have a chance to stand up, a lot of these shoots though not legal and never talked about still gas badger sets and that's why they are running alive with hares, simples

[morton 5,367]

 

It seems the almost perfect answer is relocation, that if done correctly almost always works. However, relocation does not answer the question of why the original hares died out. It is almost certain that the same will happen with the relocated hares. Find the cause of the decline in the original population and fix that. There are many reasons for a decline of hares in an area, mostly I would say it's Silage cutting as it kills the leverets. Unkeepered ground, the decline of the lapwing all contribute to the decline of the hare. That is without the pressures put on them by a man and his dog.

TC

. One of the biggest causes in my opinion is frecking badgers, I wander far and wide on my travels and the one thing that is clear to me is the more badgers on the land the less hares, I,ve also seen the growth of badger populations decimate areas once rich in hares, leverets are just eaten before they have a chance to stand up, a lot of these shoots though not legal and never talked about still gas badger sets and that's why they are running alive with hares, simples

 

I fail to equate the Badger population with the amount of hares the land holds,some of the most productive coursing land i know was found through terrier work.Badgers put a far bigger dent in the worm and slug population than Hares.

[Somewhereyournot 1,117]

Bottom line is...even though I don't agree with it...

Is, they must be doing something right?

They have huge amount of hares and shoot loads as well. Still bouncing back? Must be looked after well.