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Using A Sire Twice In A Row


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Honestly ,how many of you have ever done the repeat mating because appears to be a lot of 'my mate did' or 'i once knew ' . Pity topics like this wernt confined to fact not hearsay or classroom theor

There lies the answer.     Statistically with the same Sire & Dam with an even number of offspring the results should be the same and quality of pups the same. Varying Environmental condition

I've heard this a lot mostly from old timers and I've come to the conclusion that's it's an old wives tale imho . I've seen breeding done in fowl where the turnover and results can be seen a lot quick

For Jiggy......Which means you are breeding with no aim in mind other than because you can .Get lads on side before they are bred and makes sure the time is put in or why bother .

I agree but how often does this happen kennel blindness comes to mind I never bred a litter of terriers.
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What about when a good dog and bitch are bred together and produce rubbish.They don't get bred again but who's to say that if they were they wouldn't/couldn't produce a cracking litter second time around .Or what about when a litter of 6 produces 2or3 belter and the rest are shit.Sometimes you'll get good sometimes you'll get shit I don't think first,second,third litter from same parents has anything to do with it.

Downsouth, you have hit the nail on the head above as has C.Green, others confused and contradictory? But a decent topic worth delving into further to try to answer the original question. I would, have and will again cross the same dog and bitch. Here's my reasons for what it's worth and we will all be learning as long as we're alive.

The end result of any breeding will be dependent on many factors. IMHO the important factors are genetic inheritance, environment and condition.

Environment being how the pups are rared from whelping to entering. Many so called dog men never get this right even after years of keeping dogs? Feeding, exercising, socialising, stock braking and correct time to enter a young dog and how all effect the end result in litters spread out amongst different people.

In condition I mean the age of sire and dam, the bitch in particular not being too old to carry, produce and rare sound pups.

Then the holy grail which is the tricky one, genetic inheritance. This is how the 39 pairs of a dogs chromosomes combine and click to produce what we all want, a good worker. 39 from Sire and 39 from the Dam.

The way I visualise this is to think of the dogs and bitch chromosomes (gene pairs) as filing cabinets in which the genes are kept. These genes contain the material on which specific traits are built. Each cabinet has a number of drawers and each drawer an number of files. In these files the specific genes are stored. Approximately 78,000 genes in each pup!

With each breeding certain drawers are opened and certain files selected and certain genes paired. Some dominant and some recessive. Therefore with each breeding and indeed each pup different drawers, files and genes pair are selected by Mother Nature. Some pups good, some bad. Some litters good some bad. IMHO this is why some shy away from repeat breeding and select other dogs or choose other related dogs. The reality is they could turn out better or worse, but by sticking to proven lines or parentage the good stuff should and does come out in the end.

Edited by Corkman
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There lies the answer.

 

formula1.jpg

 

Statistically with the same Sire & Dam with an even number of offspring the results should be the same and quality of pups the same. Varying Environmental conditions and predisposed expectations may colour the outcome. Inheritance and gene allocation (if that's the right word) can obviously differ between litters which is most probably the reason why breeders see different results between same way bred litters. It also depends on how loose or not the breeding is (COI) to get re-occurring results.

 

We leave nothing to chance in Cork Boye.... some craic eh :blink:

That formula is for inbreeding not repeat matings ... No wonder Irish dogs are crap lol .......

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Brilliant answer Socks. I'd say you are some genius.

Yah Irish Greyhounds, hounds, lurchers, gundogs and terriers all are crap.

 

Correct about the outcome of the formula. Top marks to you. Trying to figure out the repeatability of breeding unrelated stock is fairly pointless or as Forest Gump would say like a box of chocolates..... You never know what you are going to get!

Have you as a genius anything to enlighten us Irish lads how to breed dogs from across the pond or are you just another THL clown or gump?

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There lies the answer.

 

formula1.jpg

 

Statistically with the same Sire & Dam with an even number of offspring the results should be the same and quality of pups the same. Varying Environmental conditions and predisposed expectations may colour the outcome. Inheritance and gene allocation (if that's the right word) can obviously differ between litters which is most probably the reason why breeders see different results between same way bred litters. It also depends on how loose or not the breeding is (COI) to get re-occurring results.

 

We leave nothing to chance in Cork Boye.... some craic eh :blink:

That formula is for inbreeding not repeat matings ... No wonder Irish dogs are crap lol .......

 

Socks O what a silly little shit you are TallyHo.

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Socks, ah yes. Forgot it was THL we are on for a moment..... sarcasm is the lowest form of whit.... Don't you know Slating an entire country is dodgey ground these days. Ask the ISIS boyes

 

Irish Setters International Society..... Just in case I start an international incident

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Thanks for the push onto English dogs Neil, we get bye!!! Great post to intice debate, for me I seem to get along just fine with what's here so not much is wrong. I'm always keen to learn though, if you have the magical formula.

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