Foxes !

[jeemes 3,547]

Dogs descended from wolves are used to killing for food and used to killing animals that are born prey animals whos biggest defence is to run. In other words its not natural to kill a fox to eat (except chinx) and dogs are wired to dominate and kill. For a dog to deal with an animal that first of all is not natural food and also fights back with violence that dog needs to have been bred for exaggerated drive and/ or unnatural gameness. Most wild predators are not interested in fighting,they are interested in eating. Thats why I always think if you wanted to take Fox with a dog it should be the appropriate breed or crossed with one.. A lot of Greyhounds would take fox but some wont and most will only fight so far before they give it up. Gameness is not about big butch dogs killing things that are hard for others to kill easily,its more about a dog that even when it cant kill and is being bitten badly it doesnt know how to give up..because its been bred by man to love that part..In this respect most dogs are the same and only a few have the real minerals. Dogs bred to herd or guard things do not fall into the minerals category.

[marshman 7,756]

Dogs descended from wolves are used to killing for food and used to killing animals that are born prey animals whos biggest defence is to run. In other words its not natural to kill a fox to eat (except chinx) and dogs are wired to dominate and kill. For a dog to deal with an animal that first of all is not natural food and also fights back with violence that dog needs to have been bred for exaggerated drive and/ or unnatural gameness. Most wild predators are not interested in fighting,they are interested in eating. Thats why I always think if you wanted to take Fox with a dog it should be the appropriate breed or crossed with one.. A lot of Greyhounds would take fox but some wont and most will only fight so far before they give it up. Gameness is not about big butch dogs killing things that are hard for others to kill easily,its more about a dog that even when it cant kill and is being bitten badly it doesnt know how to give up..because its been bred by man to love that part..In this respect most dogs are the same and only a few have the real minerals. Dogs bred to herd or guard things do not fall into the minerals category.

good post !

[pepper 45 55]

the fox is fighting for his life, the dog's not!

[leethedog 3,071]

Haven't had much to do with bull x so I can't comment on those only seen one on fox he did well as I imagine most of them do the best of seen on fox was a smooth coat bridle second gen first x deerhound grey called tess never took stick and she finished with vigour she'd shake em like a terrier with a rat nice strong bitch stood around 27 28 tts

[krawnden 1,036]

Dogs descended from wolves are used to killing for food and used to killing animals that are born prey animals whos biggest defence is to run. In other words its not natural to kill a fox to eat (except chinx) and dogs are wired to dominate and kill. For a dog to deal with an animal that first of all is not natural food and also fights back with violence that dog needs to have been bred for exaggerated drive and/ or unnatural gameness. Most wild predators are not interested in fighting,they are interested in eating. Thats why I always think if you wanted to take Fox with a dog it should be the appropriate breed or crossed with one.. A lot of Greyhounds would take fox but some wont and most will only fight so far before they give it up. Gameness is not about big butch dogs killing things that are hard for others to kill easily,its more about a dog that even when it cant kill and is being bitten badly it doesnt know how to give up..because its been bred by man to love that part..In this respect most dogs are the same and only a few have the real minerals. Dogs bred to herd or guard things do not fall into the minerals category.

I think this hits the nail on the head. I know a couple of people who've been bitten by charlie and - as blackmagpie said earlier - say it's unbelievably painful. Your average dog is not going to deliberately set itself up to receive repeated doses of intense throbbing pain...

[bird 9,594]

 

Dogs descended from wolves are used to killing for food and used to killing animals that are born prey animals whos biggest defence is to run. In other words its not natural to kill a fox to eat (except chinx) and dogs are wired to dominate and kill. For a dog to deal with an animal that first of all is not natural food and also fights back with violence that dog needs to have been bred for exaggerated drive and/ or unnatural gameness. Most wild predators are not interested in fighting,they are interested in eating. Thats why I always think if you wanted to take Fox with a dog it should be the appropriate breed or crossed with one.. A lot of Greyhounds would take fox but some wont and most will only fight so far before they give it up. Gameness is not about big butch dogs killing things that are hard for others to kill easily,its more about a dog that even when it cant kill and is being bitten badly it doesnt know how to give up..because its been bred by man to love that part..In this respect most dogs are the same and only a few have the real minerals. Dogs bred to herd or guard things do not fall into the minerals category.

I think this hits the nail on the head. I know a couple of people who've been bitten by charlie and - as blackmagpie said earlier - say it's unbelievably painful. Your average dog is not going to deliberately set itself up to receive repeated doses of intense throbbing pain...

 

yeh good thread above , I know they can bite very hard, was out one day and my mate got bitten by old Charlie right through his wellington on to big toe, fook me did he shout and your right speed that they bite with is very fast .had some dogs over years ,kill few foxes but they never get sick of them because of the amount they seen (few). I only knew one dog a 1x staffx grey tug , that would kill day+ night all week no prob, few lads of this site seen tug work and he was still game for them even as a old dog just before he died . but I never seen many like him before, I know few out there like him, but loads that are not .

[bird 9,594]

ask bryn they say colliex are cleaver Plummer eat one but we all no he's as mad as a hatter they do look tasty way the jackets off lol

he tackle them but not solo , but the funny thing is he still get nipped anyway lol

[storm323 191]

I think as you said self preservation will have a lot to do with it! The older running dogs like the greyhound would have that a lot more than a terrier blooded dog! And then I think when you add the clever "live for tomorrow " collie ! Don't think your gonna get many foxing lurchers from this breeding then?

[Wales1234 5,425]

Don't underestimate the old collie x on foxes bud !!

[mackem 23,822]

I think as you said self preservation will have a lot to do with it! The older running dogs like the greyhound would have that a lot more than a terrier blooded dog! And then I think when you add the clever "live for tomorrow " collie ! Don't think your gonna get many foxing lurchers from this breeding then?

There used to be a guy on this site Clucky,havent see him on for a while,he had a hancock dog Tarn that used to take 70-100 fox a season over the 2 seasons I saw him work,he was exceptional.

[bird 9,594]

I think as you said self preservation will have a lot to do with it! The older running dogs like the greyhound would have that a lot more than a terrier blooded dog! And then I think when you add the clever "live for tomorrow " collie ! Don't think your gonna get many foxing lurchers from this breeding then?

that's it mate, they do few but not in big numbers day after day when they been hurt few times , as said the 1x staff x grey tug , was hell of a dog on them, and he came from good stock in the black-country , the old time staffs , not show crap of today . yeh it getting the right type bred dogs in the 1st place for old Charlie , pity we got this bloody ban

[Hands of Stone 154]

One thing to consider is just why a dog would want to chase down and kill a fox.... I have had dogs of various breeds which would (if given half a chance) tear into each other over a bone/bowl of food/bed space, all sorts of reasons, but when they chase a fox, and the fox shows submissive behaviour- running away- they dont try to kill it... indeed, the worst bitch i had for kennel fighting, i took her out bushing, a fox got caught in the stop net so i untangled it, and as she had shown no interest in them before, i held the fox by the scruff before trying to release it but she came over sniffed it and it bit her. she went ballistic, tore it from my grip and absolutley demolished it. i think cos it had the confidence/aggressive behaviour. funny things dogs!

[Dead Eyes 680]

It's called prey drive

 

Some dogs have it in buckets, where as some are just eager to please and there's a massive difference

 

Gameness doesn't come into it so much.

 

If a 60lb lurcher has the drive to course and catch a 17lb fox then it doesn't need to be 'game' in a bulldog sense, because it'll likely have it dead quick before it takes too much punishment

 

 

 

Prey drive is NOT aggression either

Edited March 29, 2015 by Dead Eyes

[Cleanspade 3,322]

its easy to blame the dog. most lurchers that quit are entered to early and entered badly. by either imature or ignorant owners . that tend to be over enthusiastic or frustrated. sure a large percentage wont tackle foxes. Was they bred to.? if not why are folk that want to hunt foxes owning them. Its becouse it was purchased without forethought. as to its intended workload. sad to see folk getting rid of otherwise good animals becouse of poor decisions they themselves have made.

 

a dog that is bred right and entered right has a great chance of success . and a life that is long and fruitfull with a single owner

[FUJI 16,302]

Seen dogs not entertain a little fox yet would hang on for dear life on a big brute of a Red Deer at least 3 or 4 times its weight,getting dragged and kicked to pulp..strange animals are dogs,one things for certain there are no guarantees in this game ?