bird 9,594 Posted February 17, 2015 Report Share Posted February 17, 2015 would any of ye breed outta dog killing sheep why not,? if 6-8 pups in a litter who to say what temp a pup will pick up from each parent .? just get it and train bloody thing simple , ive said before some dogs have been bomb round sheep for near 8 years ,then one day pull sheep , there just dogs,!! even working collies have killed sheep that's been around them for years. and feck me where the sheep going on a dinner plate. ive said before when dog kills a sheep, the farmers lost money, when a man kills a sheep the famer makes money , still dead sheep lol. its all about money . but the link put on here shows why dogs should be safe with sheep they all can losse there head now and then , but that link where where 12 sheep are killed or maimed the 12g job .! 1 Quote Link to post
jigsaw 11,809 Posted February 17, 2015 Report Share Posted February 17, 2015 when pups are born from a sheep killer,the pups dont know this,its a state of mind the dog has developed,the pups can be broken to sheep even if both its parents have killed sheep.I know of such a litter a few years back,4 of the pups were solid with sheep all through their lives.The pup im having bother with came from 2 100%stock steady parents but this lad has really gone in the other direction,hopefully this summer I will try change his mind on the matter Quote Link to post
Neal 1,787 Posted February 17, 2015 Report Share Posted February 17, 2015 If it wasn't for my experience with my first bitch (mentioned above) I'd say pts as better safe than sorry. However, I know from owning her that it's possible to turn a liability into a steady and bomb-proof dog. Having said that, it's probably because she was so keen at first that I had to put so much work in on her which made her so steady. I remember one occasion, coming down off The Old Man or Wetherlam and there were several sheep hunkered down by a stile beside a cattle grid and all but one moved off when they saw us but one didnt realise we were there so stood under the ladder section with its arse towards us. Unfortunately this was where the gap which Tessa used was. She really didn't want to go near it but, with some encouragement, she finally made it realise she was there and it shot out backwards like a cannon ball. She looked at me like a footballer after bringing someone down in the penalty box...hands raised...it wasn't me...honest. 1 Quote Link to post
LIGHT ON LIGHTS OUT 71 Posted February 17, 2015 Report Share Posted February 17, 2015 would any of ye breed outta dog killing sheep Not unless stud dog was necrophiliac 1 Quote Link to post
myersbg 1,355 Posted February 17, 2015 Report Share Posted February 17, 2015 would any of ye breed outta dog killing sheep A sheep killer should not be around long enough to breed out of, SIMPLE. Brian 1 Quote Link to post
terryd 8,043 Posted February 17, 2015 Report Share Posted February 17, 2015 If it wasn't for my experience with my first bitch (mentioned above) I'd say pts as better safe than sorry. However, I know from owning her that it's possible to turn a liability into a steady and bomb-proof dog. Having said that, it's probably because she was so keen at first that I had to put so much work in on her which made her so steady. I remember one occasion, coming down off The Old Man or Wetherlam and there were several sheep hunkered down by a stile beside a cattle grid and all but one moved off when they saw us but one didnt realise we were there so stood under the ladder section with its arse towards us. Unfortunately this was where the gap which Tessa used was. She really didn't want to go near it but, with some encouragement, she finally made it realise she was there and it shot out backwards like a cannon ball. She looked at me like a footballer after bringing someone down in the penalty box...hands raised...it wasn't me...honest. If it wasn't for my experience with my first bitch (mentioned above) I'd say pts as better safe than sorry. However, I know from owning her that it's possible to turn a liability into a steady and bomb-proof dog. Having said that, it's probably because she was so keen at first that I had to put so much work in on her which made her so steady. I remember one occasion, coming down off The Old Man or Wetherlam and there were several sheep hunkered down by a stile beside a cattle grid and all but one moved off when they saw us but one didnt realise we were there so stood under the ladder section with its arse towards us. Unfortunately this was where the gap which Tessa used was. She really didn't want to go near it but, with some encouragement, she finally made it realise she was there and it shot out backwards like a cannon ball. She looked at me like a footballer after bringing someone down in the penalty box...hands raised...it wasn't me...honest. Ha I know that look my pup does it when I walk him by sheep on the lead if any bolt he starts bouncing about looking in any direction apart from the sheep as if to say I never did it 1 Quote Link to post
Dunkanon 380 Posted February 17, 2015 Report Share Posted February 17, 2015 when pups are born from a sheep killer,the pups dont know this,its a state of mind the dog has developed,the pups can be broken to sheep even if both its parents have killed sheep.I know of such a litter a few years back,4 of the pups were solid with sheep all through their lives.The pup im having bother with came from 2 100%stock steady parents but this lad has really gone in the other direction,hopefully this summer I will try change his mind on the matter I agree in principle with what you say, however my thinking is a dog killing sheep shouldn't be alive to get bred from, if you was lining your bitch and the choice of two stud dogs of equal ability and of breeding you liked was available but one of the dogs had lost the head on a couple of occasions and killed sheep which stud would you choose and why? Quote Link to post
jigsaw 11,809 Posted February 17, 2015 Report Share Posted February 17, 2015 I also agree with you Dunkanon,but the dog I heard about was an outstanding animal on every quarry and his encounter with mutton was known and his sins overlooked with the strict practice of never running him around or near sheep again,he was also worked I am told to the ripe old age of 12,and to his last days he never encountered sheep again due to his owners discretion,he also sired the litter mentioned and none of the pups I knew of ever looked at sheep and were hunted amongst them ..I believe his value as a working dog took precedent over his fondness for mutton,(which by the way was a one off attack and hold of a ewe) and he produced some very useful progeny in to 2 further generations of his blood lines.This was told to me by an older hunting man as I was in my 20's at the time,just something which might be food for thought in this topic.Again I agree with the main view,any dog that is an out and out attacker and slayer of sheep has to be dealt with and quick.Something I might have to face up to at some point myself,but not without honest effort to correct the fault first. 6 Quote Link to post
FUJI 16,276 Posted February 17, 2015 Report Share Posted February 17, 2015 would any of ye breed outta dog killing sheep The fen dogs I'd say never see a sheep and I'd bet plenty would like a mouth full of mutton yet are bred off with no question EVER asking if the parents are stock broken lol 4 Quote Link to post
jigsaw 11,809 Posted February 17, 2015 Report Share Posted February 17, 2015 thats another good point,theres a few salukis down our way that are treacherous fukkers to dog and man and anything else,and once they do their job well,,,the sheep worrying problems is..........well.........not a problem. 1 Quote Link to post
Bush Rummager 3,755 Posted February 17, 2015 Report Share Posted February 17, 2015 Dog's are like us and, no matter how well educated, some days just say "feck it"... seen a pure working collie do it. If you get that hung up over it, tip up to the farmer. Dogs know what they are doing.. cant trust any 100% ?? this is a disgrace though... mad dog kills three sheep there and then: http://youtu.be/tuua6ZZKsD8 Sent from Samsung tablet 1 Quote Link to post
Dunkanon 380 Posted February 17, 2015 Report Share Posted February 17, 2015 Fair points Jigsaw/Fuji....but Im referring to lurchers that work sheep country. If a dog as in a fen dog is never going to encounter a sheep out doing its job then its not a problem. But if it was in sheep country then it would be a liability if it fancied lamp chops....I would bet that it would either be passed on or PTS soon enough if it was pulling wool as well as longears. I guess a lot of it is down to choice, I wont keep a lurcher who thinks sheep are fair game, and Im not talking about a dog that has a daft moment and runs about the sheep and does no harm....that can be curbed, but a dog that kills sheep/lambs one off or not is for me not getting re-educated or re-homed. Its a fatal mistake on that dogs part. My part in this is that I have to do everything I can to train and educate that pup and keep reinforcing that over time so that it doesn't happen. Quote Link to post
FUJI 16,276 Posted February 18, 2015 Report Share Posted February 18, 2015 I live in the Lake District Dunkanon and there's millions of sheep wherever you go,dogs have to be stock broken or forever kept on a leash..my dogs see them EVERY day so probably just see them as part and parcel of the furniture so to speak..lowland sheep to most dogs ain't an issue but I've seen very competent dogs of those get real frisky and chance their arm on the fell sheep,not sure what the difference is but there must be something I guess? I do plenty of fell walking with mine so again they don't even lift their heads to look at them but anyone who "thinks" their dog is 100% safe my advice is don't be too cock sure especially if your heading for the hills ?? 4 Quote Link to post
Neal 1,787 Posted February 18, 2015 Report Share Posted February 18, 2015 You may have a point there Fuji. While I owned Tessa I also bought in an adult 3/4 collie 1/4 greyhound who was reputedly stock steady. On his first walk with me he ignored a flock of sheep then decided to chase one single sheep on the far side; I shouted at him to stop (which he did) and it was as though he was confirming, "No herdwicks either then?" He was completely fine with them after that...even a hand reared one which walked straight up to us once when the rest of the flock waved goodbye and latched on to his nose in an effort to get some milk. I can still picture him looking at it cross-eyed wondering what on Earth was going on. 1 Quote Link to post
Wales1234 5,424 Posted February 18, 2015 Report Share Posted February 18, 2015 Your right Fuji there's definitely something different between the sheep on the hills !! And a dieing sheep that all mangy can turn a stocker broken dog abit loopy 2 Quote Link to post
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