good post ken, suppose its letting them try act natural, and not( over) training them from young pups ? But to be honest i find a lot of colliexs will ( constantly) have 1 eye on you the other at what ever. Bryn great at ferrting vin + Tomo will tell you that as well, he does is own thing, and will mark for rabbits and does great job. But bloody hell , many time ive seen other quarry other side of a gate good 30-40yds out, sent him over to go and have look , just before i get over , but he just landed other side and feckin waited for me to get over, and what was there as gone to m