theres a good book that i learnt from, net making for sport by howard glyn or some thing like that. check out coch y bonddu books sure they'll have it on there, or the bay. anyway, stubby ive got them instructions here somwere on how to do that. i made them like that first off but they were shit. only looped onto the ring so slipped a hell of a lot and looked right shabby, so then i moved onto the needle method. couldnt follow them instruction off the web addy mentioned so thatst when i got the book. ill scan them instructions on if i get a chance, if they'll be of any use to anyone. took long