Dogs throwing the towel in and breeding.

[W. Katchum 35,052]

Just now, SheepChaser said:

Nobody in particular mate. I was just seeing if folk were still capable of having an actual discussion with various opinions without it just being a slanging match. 

Och fcuk off then ye boring Cnut

[SheepChaser 7,557]

3 minutes ago, W. Katchum said:

Another thing that tickles me is the amount of folk who suggest a dog for someone to use over there bitch, but chances are they never saw the dog work, an prob never saw bitch either

Yes that’s very common here - “if you’re looking for x cross I would go to xx dog 100%” and they’ve never even seen the dog in the flesh. Makes it more awkward reading if you have seen it go, or not as the case may be  

[SheepChaser 7,557]

Just now, W. Katchum said:

Och fcuk off then ye boring Cnut

Be interesting to see if anyone can actually answer the question though .

[W. Katchum 35,052]

Just now, SheepChaser said:

Be interesting to see if anyone can actually answer the question though .

Mate al dogs have breaking points, if the owner is one them guys, then even older dogs will jack, some will die doing a job, but most will walk when they had enough an they ain’t robots  Your trying to make it sound as tho once a dogs grafting it is a guaranteed thing, well it ain’t 

[Bosun11 537]

1 hour ago, SheepChaser said:

I was reading some bits on here this morning and it made me think about a few things.

You always hear it said on here and in general that it is a borderline criminal offence to breed a dog that is not “well seasoned” which appears to be 5/6 year old and up. 
 

Two things came to mind. Firstly there will be plenty of dogs that are running well enough at six that have never been pushed and have done less graft than another dog which is three.

Secondly - had anyone actually know a very good dog which was flying after three good seasons where it had seen plenty of work, that then went on to throw the towel in at a later date (4,5,6 year old ?) and where that wasn’t through injury or poor fitness and conditioning etc ?

Just wondered on folks thoughts ? 

Yes, i've seen dogs spew after a couple of hard seasons but after a third, most that stick with it get harder.

It's a risk you take if you want a pup out of younger dogs but there's risk in every step your new pup takes, no matter what it's parentage and NOTHING is gauranteed...

With lurchers you can breed best to best and get onions and then breed onions and get a world beater..!

[Ferretman65 1,244]

Theres all sorts of reasons for Dogs throwing in the towel or Jacking in could be fitness could be just to smart I've seen all breeds do this even first x bulls every dog is an Individual specially lamping dog getting pushed to much and in my opinion u should always bred from the best u can get 

[bird 8,928]

1 minute ago, sid g said:

heres another thought do you take a pup off 2 working parents with 3 seasons behind them or 2 parents that have never grafted  but have 6 generations of workers in the breeding . 

fair answer sid,  now ive been reading on a apbt  site , where 2 well bred game dogs off  lines of proven dogs in the box, and yet out of say a litter of 8 pups, you might only get 2-3  real game dogs . the rest classed as curs , but them curs would be on different level to most type dogs. so  even the best dog and bitches lurchers , gundogs, terriers etc   still throw crap.  and in lurchers , i say up to 3-   5 year old there at there best, regards speed/strike , lets face it a 3 year old fit dog , should give you its best in the field , i should imagine  that would be the same as coursing dog, over 5 all dogs loose bit of pace. and regards teeth job , a dog can jack any time , if get wacked all the while  and not rested to heal proper, ive always thought my self try to get a pup from proven parents , but even from say 6 year old parent's , you still dont know if your pup will be as good as them .? 

[SheepChaser 7,557]

12 minutes ago, W. Katchum said:

Mate al dogs have breaking points, if the owner is one them guys, then even older dogs will jack, some will die doing a job, but most will walk when they had enough an they ain’t robots  Your trying to make it sound as tho once a dogs grafting it is a guaranteed thing, well it ain’t 

Not saying they are mate, just genuinely curious if anyone has known a well tested and seasoned dog in terms of numbers just give up heart. Not down to owner f**k up. By what you’re saying it would make little difference how old a dog is as they can always jack. Which is obviously true, but I have not met a good dog with a good owner which has done a lot by end of third season which has just lost heart and walked away in its next season on day a fox. All dogs hve a breaking point as you say, but if it’s a continuous plane of work, do you know more what you have at age six then age four ? 

[Black neck 11,762]

20 minutes ago, W. Katchum said:

Another thing that tickles me is the amount of folk who suggest a dog for someone to use over there bitch, but chances are they never saw the dog work, an prob never saw bitch either

I think rays buck will be ideal ower your kelpie x pal  

[Bosun11 537]

4 minutes ago, SheepChaser said:

Not saying they are mate, just genuinely curious if anyone has known a well tested and seasoned dog in terms of numbers just give up heart. Not down to owner f**k up. By what you’re saying it would make little difference how old a dog is as they can always jack. Which is obviously true, but I have not met a good dog with a good owner which has done a lot by end of third season which has just lost heart and walked away in its next season on day a fox. All dogs hve a breaking point as you say, but if it’s a continuous plane of work, do you know more what you have at age six then age four ? 

You do but as you know, many of the best (well grafted) dogs don't make old bones...

So which is the greater risk, taking a litter out of that 3/4 year old, or holding on for another couple of seasons, where the same dog may end up dead before you get chance...?

[C.green 3,014]

I genuinely seen a dog i really rated seen him take all game real well my pal wanted to mate him to a bitch so took him for a few days the owner said take him chuck him on what ya want first night out without owner dog done the dirty not just once either. 
 

Ive never bred a litter of lurchers but if i did id consider it abit of a waste of time if i had to lie about age work ect really folk should be biting ya hand off for them if they worth taking pups off

[W. Katchum 35,052]

3 minutes ago, SheepChaser said:

Not saying they are mate, just genuinely curious if anyone has known a well tested and seasoned dog in terms of numbers just give up heart. Not down to owner f**k up. By what you’re saying it would make little difference how old a dog is as they can always jack. Which is obviously true, but I have not met a good dog with a good owner which has done a lot by end of third season which has just lost heart and walked away in its next season on day a fox. All dogs hve a breaking point as you say, but if it’s a continuous plane of work, do you know more what you have at age six then age four ? 

4 is a good age an you should know what you have, but aye I think you’ll know more at 6. Iv known older lurchers kill terriers, bite kids, kill sheep, chase other stock an all sorts a problems, life ain’t plain sailing with an older dog, like iv said nothing is guaranteed, your talking about owner fcuk up, what you consider a fcuk up, I may consider a test, some folk will up the work rate as dog gets older an gets more experience, some give it an easier ride, doubling up with younger dog, less runs due to age an taking longer to heal get back in shape. Everybody am every dog is different. Iv saw a coulke adult dogs walk that I couldn’t explain, heard of a load more over the years, shit happens mate. My pal had a dog walk that was 8 an one hardest dogs I ever known,an had a litter of pups in kennel, what you do then? Keep the faith? Get real? Shit happens

[SheepChaser 7,557]

3 minutes ago, Bosun11 said:

You do but as you know, many of the best (well grafted) dogs don't make old bones...

So which is the greater risk, taking a litter out of that 3/4 year old, or holding on for another couple of seasons, where the same dog may end up dead before you get chance...?

Yep, had that! I was just genuinely interested, I’m not saying it don’t happen but I’ve not seen it myself or had any mates who’ve had it happen. A dog just decide to become a coward or it’s not for them once they seem fully wed to the job. 

[W. Katchum 35,052]

3 minutes ago, C.green said:

I genuinely seen a dog i really rated seen him take all game real well my pal wanted to mate him to a bitch so took him for a few days the owner said take him chuck him on what ya want first night out without owner dog done the dirty not just once either. 
 

Ive never bred a litter of lurchers but if i did id consider it abit of a waste of time if i had to lie about age work ect really folk should be biting ya hand off for them if they worth taking pups off

[C.green 3,014]

Have seen a few dogs after that youngster enthusiasm runs out and they worked hard start bieng bit iffy in certain places not fully committing to stuff sat of a wood they think when they get there it will hop in ect is that considered jacking in most peoples book ? A dog still killing when it thinks it can but ignoring some stuff it thinks it wont ?