k€rry 14 Posted January 27, 2017 Report Share Posted January 27, 2017 Getting between the ropes no matter amuture/pro takes a certain amount of bravery if you ask me. but Ali took it to another level ffs he fought men in his day that would turn you cold with a stare and could back it up forman/liston the list goes on he overcome a brave man cowerd o no.now not going into Vietnam why why should he growing up being told cant go in there whites only/go back home ni@@er being classed as sub human not just him mind then the elite america bully hungry for war decides all you sub human blacks are now Americans go there shoot the little yellow man you'll be a hero ffs look at it from another angle there his history going way back understand that you'll see why he refused to go this is my appinion only mind Quote Link to post Share on other sites
socks 32,253 Posted January 27, 2017 Report Share Posted January 27, 2017 I think some of you guys are confusing heart with bravery ... Ali knew what he was capable of in the ring and in his mind he was going to be the winner ... worst case scenario he was going to be knocked out ... a big heart ... flying off to a foreign country in an alien environment living in shit accommodation eating shit food getting minimal sleep knowing that the next patrol the next footstep you take could see you lose body parts or die but still doing it is bravery ... to very different things IMO ......... 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DogMan85 722 Posted January 27, 2017 Report Share Posted January 27, 2017 (edited) I think some of you guys are confusing heart with bravery ... Ali knew what he was capable of in the ring and in his mind he was going to be the winner ... worst case scenario he was going to be knocked out ... a big heart ... flying off to a foreign country in an alien environment living in shit accommodation eating shit food getting minimal sleep knowing that the next patrol the next footstep you take could see you lose body parts or die but still doing it is bravery ... to very different things IMO .........Being American or British you know your enemy is going to be bringing knives to a gunfight, the odds are massively stacked in your favour. In the ring it's man against man with nowhere to hide. Worst case scenario is death just like it is in the battlefield. Ali and his team knew he had no chance against Larry Holmes and he was pretty fcuking ill going into the bout yet he still stepped into the ring and took one of the worst beatings I've ever seen in a boxing match. The man and balls of steel and the heart and courage to match. The men who serve their country well are the bravest of the brave but to suggest Ali was a yellow belly is so far from the truth it's insulting. Edited January 27, 2017 by DogMan85 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
delswal 3,817 Posted January 27, 2017 Report Share Posted January 27, 2017 I think some of you guys are confusing heart with bravery ... Ali knew what he was capable of in the ring and in his mind he was going to be the winner ... worst case scenario he was going to be knocked out ... a big heart ... flying off to a foreign country in an alien environment living in shit accommodation eating shit food getting minimal sleep knowing that the next patrol the next footstep you take could see you lose body parts or die but still doing it is bravery ... to very different things IMO ......... Agree with everything you say there Socks. Question is, Did Ali refuse to go for his morals and beliefs, or the fear of being killed or maimed. What stance would any genuine man make for his personal morals and beliefs? How far would folks go on here for what they truly believe and up hold? And? would you allow anybody to detract you from your beliefs? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DogMan85 722 Posted January 27, 2017 Report Share Posted January 27, 2017 I think some of you guys are confusing heart with bravery ... Ali knew what he was capable of in the ring and in his mind he was going to be the winner ... worst case scenario he was going to be knocked out ... a big heart ... flying off to a foreign country in an alien environment living in shit accommodation eating shit food getting minimal sleep knowing that the next patrol the next footstep you take could see you lose body parts or die but still doing it is bravery ... to very different things IMO ......... Agree with everything you say there Socks. Question is, Did Ali refuse to go for his morals and beliefs, or the fear of being killed or maimed. What stance would any genuine man make for his personal morals and beliefs? How far would folks go on here for what they truly believe and up hold? And? would you allow anybody to detract you from your beliefs? Ali wouldn't have seen any action over there, you guys seriously believe he would have been running around killing the Vietcong with a flamethrower? 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
socks 32,253 Posted January 27, 2017 Report Share Posted January 27, 2017 I think some of you guys are confusing heart with bravery ... Ali knew what he was capable of in the ring and in his mind he was going to be the winner ... worst case scenario he was going to be knocked out ... a big heart ... flying off to a foreign country in an alien environment living in shit accommodation eating shit food getting minimal sleep knowing that the next patrol the next footstep you take could see you lose body parts or die but still doing it is bravery ... to very different things IMO .........Being American or British you know your enemy is going to be bringing knives to a gunfight, the odds are massively stacked in your favour. In the ring it's man against man with nowhere to hide. Worst case scenario is death just like it is in the battlefield. Ali and his team knew he had no chance against Larry Holmes and he was pretty fcuking ill going into the bout yet he still stepped into the ring and took one of the worst beatings I've ever seen in a boxing match. The man and balls of steel and the heart and courage to match.The men who serve their country well are the bravest of the brave but to suggest Ali was a yellow belly is so far from the truth it's insulting. You've taken what I said out of context ... I never said he was a coward I said there's a difference between getting in the ring where somebody will punch the fukc out of you to stepping on hostile ground and somebody killing you ... in war there is no ref no doctor no ring team to stop the opposition killing you ....... 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DogMan85 722 Posted January 27, 2017 Report Share Posted January 27, 2017 (edited) I think some of you guys are confusing heart with bravery ... Ali knew what he was capable of in the ring and in his mind he was going to be the winner ... worst case scenario he was going to be knocked out ... a big heart ... flying off to a foreign country in an alien environment living in shit accommodation eating shit food getting minimal sleep knowing that the next patrol the next footstep you take could see you lose body parts or die but still doing it is bravery ... to very different things IMO .........Being American or British you know your enemy is going to be bringing knives to a gunfight, the odds are massively stacked in your favour. In the ring it's man against man with nowhere to hide. Worst case scenario is death just like it is in the battlefield. Ali and his team knew he had no chance against Larry Holmes and he was pretty fcuking ill going into the bout yet he still stepped into the ring and took one of the worst beatings I've ever seen in a boxing match. The man and balls of steel and the heart and courage to match.The men who serve their country well are the bravest of the brave but to suggest Ali was a yellow belly is so far from the truth it's insulting. You've taken what I said out of context ... I never said he was a coward I said there's a difference between getting in the ring where somebody will punch the fukc out of you to stepping on hostile ground and somebody killing you ... in war there is no ref no doctor no ring team to stop the opposition killing you .......I wasn't aiming it at your post just at those labeling the man a coward when he wasn't close to being such. Talking of other brave boxers, Ali stated that if ever he was called for a holy war he would want Joe Frazier stood at the side of him. He refused to go to Vietnam because of his beliefs, of course the NOI was behind a lot of his tirades but can you blame him for being anti-establishment. Edited January 27, 2017 by DogMan85 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gnasher16 29,662 Posted January 29, 2017 Report Share Posted January 29, 2017 (edited) He refused to go and fight for his country....so like anyone else should be classed a coward The flip side to this coin is would you class any soldier who refused to go 15 rounds with Joe Frazier a coward ?........because believe me very few human beings would stand toe to toe with Joe Frazier for 45 minutes even if they had the necessary skill/ability to.......or are we to just assume that they would because they are soldiers !! Edited January 29, 2017 by gnasher16 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gnasher16 29,662 Posted January 29, 2017 Report Share Posted January 29, 2017 (edited) If he dodged the draft illegally then like a normal person would be classed.......a cowardAnd then all one would have to do is go on YouTube and find he's as far removed from being a coward as you could imagine....Getting in the ring and fighting doesn't make you brave The thousands of American who went a fought in Vietnam were the brave ones Fighting to near death absorbing massive amounts of punishment does make you brave, as far as boxers go he is up with the bravest and toughest. He knew fully well he wouldn't be fighting in Vietnam had he gone over so he wasn't dodging in the sense you are making out was he? He refused to go and fight for his country....so like anyone else should be classed a cowardYou still don't get it do you? He wasn't refusing to fight as he wouldn't have done any fighting..... It doesn't matter if he knew he'd be in the thick of it or not....he refused to go so is a coward Just like all the presidents and politicians I think you boys have your understanding of bravery/courage all wrong....it doesnt take courage to do something that comes natural to you but Ali did that to extraordinary levels which does take courage........soldiers bravely walk onto a battlefield to do what comes naturally to them could Ali of done that who knows if he had that type of bravery....but likewise who knows if an individual soldier has the courage to go 15 rounds with Joe Frazier........all being equal its a pretty meaningless comparison. Edited January 29, 2017 by gnasher16 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Waz 4,212 Posted January 31, 2017 Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 Anyway.. back to the topic! Ive understood it that Ali refused the draft as a conscientous objector “I ain’t got no quarrel with those Vietcong.” "Why should they ask me to put on a uniform and go 10,000 miles from home and drop bombs and bullets on brown people in Vietnam while so-called Negro people in Louisville are treated like dogs and denied simple human rights?" With great personal cost + 5 ie: he had to be made an example off... Which was all later over-ruled Does that not show deep courage of his conviction? 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dillydog 8,417 Posted January 31, 2017 Report Share Posted January 31, 2017 He was a racist: He was a realist, I totally understand and agree with him 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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