hard terriers

[bud9 79]

cheers for the comments lads

[mad terrier 9]

a reckless hard dog is a dog that wants too fight its quarry a rough dog is a dog that works its quarry usually baying and mixing hard keeping it on its toes but not charging in all guns blazing imo

 

not really that up on the terminology but from what you said there i think i have a reckless hard young dog and a mixing hard old bitch???

 

the young dog boxes his quarry, doesnt let up, has no reverse, is mute but still young so theres time for him to learn,has to be dug to everytime if his quarry is still live that is.

 

the bitch's style is a bit different, she boxes if she needs to but gives voice frequently, doesnt let her quarry past her and often dispatches her quarry no fuss, doesnt have to be dug to unless shes in bother as she can be called out

 

if this makes any sense at all?

dont under stand about not having too dig too bitch unless she s in bother as she can be called out. when i enter a terrier i expect too dig too them anything less is a failure thats what terriers in the main are bred too do stay till dug .

without going more in_depth than i need to, lets just say its in the bitch's best interest if i call her out,id rather a live bitch that gives her all for me,

we work as a team.

 

back to the original question, what do you think?

instead of calling her out why not dig her unless that is you work rocks and if thats the case then i understand why its handy to be able too call her out .

im in a rocky coastal area, sheep country. last time we were out it was a fox holed up in a earth on a cliff face.

[Guest dee mac]

a reckless hard dog is a dog that wants too fight its quarry a rough dog is a dog that works its quarry usually baying and mixing hard keeping it on its toes but not charging in all guns blazing imo

 

not really that up on the terminology but from what you said there i think i have a reckless hard young dog and a mixing hard old bitch???

 

the young dog boxes his quarry, doesnt let up, has no reverse, is mute but still young so theres time for him to learn,has to be dug to everytime if his quarry is still live that is.

 

the bitch's style is a bit different, she boxes if she needs to but gives voice frequently, doesnt let her quarry past her and often dispatches her quarry no fuss, doesnt have to be dug to unless shes in bother as she can be called out

 

if this makes any sense at all?

dont under stand about not having too dig too bitch unless she s in bother as she can be called out. when i enter a terrier i expect too dig too them anything less is a failure thats what terriers in the main are bred too do stay till dug .

without going more in_depth than i need to, lets just say its in the bitch's best interest if i call her out,id rather a live bitch that gives her all for me,

we work as a team.

 

back to the original question, what do you think?

instead of calling her out why not dig her unless that is you work rocks and if thats the case then i understand why its handy to be able too call her out .

im in a rocky coastal area, sheep country. last time we were out it was a fox holed up in a earth on a cliff face.

fair enough mate i see were your coming from now

[bud9 79]

this is my 8 year old terrier hes done a good bit graft or me and he still grafts no problem

[tearem 31]

Nice looking dog that, believe he's clever.

Dogs can be too hard, or too hard and game, like Taffy and Fluwijn. You dig them out and they lost their head (literally, sort of) and wag their tail like: that was great craic!

But after a few times of using them they cannot be used any longer. Fluwijn has without going into detail, irrepairable damage and much missing down under, from just 2 badgers, and she would happily plunge into the next. It's not like such dogs are necessarily stupid, they simply are too game for their own good, they are fighting stoned when they are with the game and feel no fear, no will to retreat, they only want to compete and win.

Fluwijn only lives because I protect her, which means she can only hunt pigs at places where there are certainly no badgers, and incidentally she can be used for foxes in hopeless places or gunshot wounded foxes in earths.

But she has given me some fantastic offspring.

She comes from a litter all of which were extremely early starters, and while 3 became too hard, 2 turned out quite useful. I lost her brother Faun before he was a year old in a haystack, smothered with the fox, he worked to fox for a few months then, as if he had years of experience; he was a very good bolter. And so was his brother with another terrier man, he died last year from a kidney failure or poisoning, and one sister is also still alive with another terrier man but like Fluwijn too hard, but a fine brood bitch giving capable pups when mated with Russells.

[gonetoearth 5,144]

Nice looking dog that, believe he's clever.

Dogs can be too hard, or too hard and game, like Taffy and Fluwijn. You dig them out and they lost their head (literally, sort of) and wag their tail like: that was great craic!

But after a few times of using them they cannot be used any longer. Fluwijn has without going into detail, irrepairable damage and much missing down under, from just 2 badgers, and she would happily plunge into the next. It's not like such dogs are necessarily stupid, they simply are too game for their own good, they are fighting stoned when they are with the game and feel no fear, no will to retreat, they only want to compete and win.

Fluwijn only lives because I protect her, which means she can only hunt pigs at places where there are certainly no badgers, and incidentally she can be used for foxes in hopeless places or gunshot wounded foxes in earths.

But she has given me some fantastic offspring.

She comes from a litter all of which were extremely early starters, and while 3 became too hard, 2 turned out quite useful. I lost her brother Faun before he was a year old in a haystack, smothered with the fox, he worked to fox for a few months then, as if he had years of experience; he was a very good bolter. And so was his brother with another terrier man, he died last year from a kidney failure or poisoning, and one sister is also still alive with another terrier man but like Fluwijn too hard, but a fine brood bitch giving capable pups when mated with Russells.

OH TO LIVE IN GERMANY, FUNNY OLD WORLD WE SPENT FOOOKING YEARS FIGHTING YOU LOT FOR SO CALLED FREEDOM YET ITS US LOT WHO HAVE HAD ARE CULTURE AND RIGHTS TAKEN AWAY SCARED TO TALK ABOUT DIGGING ETC FOR FEAR OF A KNOCK ON THE DOOR SOUNDS LIKE YOU KNOW THE SCORE TEAREM AND NO OFFENCE MENT IN ANY WAY JUST IRONIC EH

[mickyatch 37]

I might blow this whole thread up but from experienced dog men that have had all dogs in there kennels which breed tends to be the most "hard" terrier when working a fox to ground be it lakey russel or patt ?

[gonetoearth 5,144]

I might blow this whole thread up but from experienced dog men that have had all dogs in there kennels which breed tends to be the most "hard" terrier when working a fox to ground be it lakey russel or patt ?

seen them in every breed in differant measures

Edited February 17, 2011 by gonetoearth

[fat man 4,740]

I might blow this whole thread up but from experienced dog men that have had all dogs in there kennels which breed tends to be the most "hard" terrier when working a fox to ground be it lakey russel or patt ?

Ive seen little russell typs destroy foxs to ground and also seen big bruisers of pats stand of their fox,they all work in different ways,best ive ever seen was a little lakey bitch that was to ground on badger pre ban for 3 days she was a demon on fox after that,lost all interest in billy,she could be tried anywhere.Can i hijack this thread now and ask,IS A FOX A REAL TEST FOR A WORKING TERRIER.

[MOO 730]

this is my 8 year old terrier hes done a good bit graft or me and he still grafts no problem

How many digs is a good bit of graft ?

[bud9 79]

moo my old dog has had years of geting dug to and i asked you what hunt you are the terrierman for and you have still not got back to me a think we both no your a gob shit

[MOO 730]

Just asked a simple question ?...

[Simoman 110]

A really interesting, informative thread contributed by members with obvious experience

["Earth!" 503]

Different dog for different jobs..

those with the yappy type,hands on hearts will of at some point had a stubborn quarry that simply would not bolt nor been able to be held at a stopend,this is where the harder terrier comes into its own.

 

also,breeding wise,i was told not to put a out and out yapper to another,again,the harder is needed in the cross.

[JR Yipp 111]

You can not fully test a truely hard dog so why do so many value them as brood stock????

Why cant a truely hard dog not be tested ?

 

Because IMO to fully test a dog it needs to be used in many different earths and situations many times a season. Hard dogs can't be tested as they are sat in the kennel when they should be getting dug. Like i have already said i think many people are getting a hard dog and a rough dog mixed up they are not the same animal.

imo I think people get mixed up with hard and game dogs ....but surely working a hard dog as much as you can is a form of testing ....I have a dog I would consider hardon foxes that has had a few 4hour plus digs 1 last year he was on for over 4hours with a jcb digging down to him and never moved and we opened up to the dog with his fox dead and the dog had nothinng left in the tank on the point of collapse but he stayed with it he has had a double 4 yolkers this season 2 of which both were dead surely thats a test for any terrier so I have to disagree that hard dogs cant be tested .

FTB this is not a macho thing but the hole point of the thread is is there any point to working hard dogs and like ive already said all types have there place and as you said as long as there stayers

 

im not sure about this one... cant make my mind up. i think dogs are tested in different ways individually. my personal gripe with most terriers and terrier men is that they are considered good when they have actually seen very little. im not into numbers for numbers sake but a dog thats had volume in what ever way it works and in lots of different scenarios is the key for me. obviously different people do different amounts but on the whole when you see what some folk pull or have done alot yourself with a few different dogs you will be in a dream world of what a dog can achieve or what tested is. (i know moo and bulter are aware of what a tested dog is which is why im adding my 2 pence).

 

digging to a dog once and twice a month on a sunday just dosent cut it for me. although fun it is no test for a dog hard or not. it is definitely worth considering that if these so called hard dog were pushed a bit harder they would not be so hard in the long run. ive had lots of people rock up with so called hard/mute dogs. now i have a habit of testing dogs (perhaps harder than others rightly or wrongly) and have no problem with digging to a dog that has taken some stick on one dig several more times that day aslong as the adrenaline is up and the dog isnt in any pain... this is the test that most hard dogs dont get because im afraid for most the "medals" have already been ernt. this is when you find out if the hard/mute dogs are truly this or just hasnt seen enough or are to fresh.

 

the definition of a hard dog is a difficult one.a good hard dog definitely has its uses and despite the common thoughts on a hard dog dosent have to be mute and certainly dosent have to be scared. however there are only very few situation where they will out perform a good mixer consistently.