Alsone
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Everything posted by Alsone
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Not the greatest fan of .22 LR because of it's tendency to ricochet, but it's unbeatable as a quiet bunny gun (nothing quieter) and they're dirt cheap to run. That's why it's probably still the world's most popular calibre. That said, if you have a large piece of land, consider the ranges you'll be shooting at carefully before making a decision as one of the .17's may be more appropriate ie HMR or even hornet. It's all going to depend on the range. Also be aware on the flip side, that the more powerful you go, the more meat you damage (so you need to head shoot to eat with a .17), and the
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Came across this by accident tonight, a BASC document offering Guidance for Firearms Officers on calibre vs good reason. Basically, it's an unofficial extension to the table found on page 121 of the Official Guidelines and covers far more calibres including .300WM and .300 WSM. It also goes right up to .700 cal! http://basc.org.uk/wp-content/plugins/download-monitor/download.php?id=21 Quite a useful document, as guidance.
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I'm not in any way doubting the calibre or it's capabilities. Just that it might not be easy to show good reason. An opinion shared by County Deer Stalking Magazine: http://www.countydeerstalking.co.uk/300-winchester-magnum.html That said, they acknowledge that some people do manage to get a grant. I'd imagine it depends on your force, the type of deer and the size of the permission.
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Obviously at least one force is generous then because with an energy of 3,900 - 4,000 ft lbs, it's firmly in the big game area of the guidelines. Even the wiki lists it as a big game calibre although in the US it's also used for Elk. Then again they're only guidelines.
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That might be a difficult sell as in the UK it's falls within the remit of a big game calibre based on energy. Whereas I can see an outside chance against boar, I think you'd really struggle to get any grant in the UK against deer. That's not to say you definitely won't, just that it might not be easy and there's a high chance of refusal.
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.270 is regarded as marginal against boar as it falls a fraction below the minimum recommended energy (by around 100ft lbs). .308 is a good deer calibre. Can't comment on boar, but it should have the performance. Another calibre to consider might be .30-06. Penalty is it carries more recoil.
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Rabid use your mobile phone in future for calls like this and if you have Android, download an App called ACR (Automated Call Recording). It basically records every incoming and outgoing call and gives you the option of saving it when the call ends. I'd save a call like that onto my pc and maybe even onto a disk or usb and then store 1 copy with my Firearm Application as well as leaving one on the phone / pc. That way if it ever comes into question, you have some evidence to show you followed their advice.
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Exactly. All you risk is refusal. Costs of refusal, and if you appeal, losing a Crown Court case or conceding the point in Court and being granted on condition of fitting a cabinet, potentially up to £10K in police costs. Costs of a cheap cabinet, £ new or £30 second hand. Is it really worth it?
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This should answer all your questions: https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/117636/firearms-security-handbook.pdf ...and the guidance itself, makes it quite clear that individual circumstances should dictate the level of security required:
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Elliot says he's more interested in low noise and recoil than out and out power. With that in mind, the .17 hornet seems a perfect replacement at moderate ranges eg out to 200yds as it's low noise (for a CF), low recoil and you can see the strike. Of course it's not replacement for a .223 if you need the extra range or energy. I have no 1st hand experience shooting the .17 hornet so can only go off reports and others experiences, but it seems to be getting quite a following. An article in Outdoor Life even described it as the perfect predator round eg: http://www.outdoorlife.com/blogs/
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He uses guns....enough said.
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Someone on here has one Elliot from previous postings. Maybe you need a night out with them to see whether or not it can replace the .223 for you as nothing like hands on when spending lots of money.
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If you don't need the extreme range of the .223, and like a quiet round (comparatively for a CF) with little recoil, consider getting a .17 hornet for longer range instead of the .22 hornet you were considering (sale of .223 should fund it!). Same ballistic curve as the .223, but almost no recoil and good ammo off the shelf. Will take fox out to a couple of hundred yards without over pushing it and some would use it further. I personally think it's a very under rated round, although it does seem to be getting an ever bigger following.
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I see there's a similar review on Uttings, although the rest are positive: http://www.uttings.co.uk/p105793-buffalo-river-dominator-gunbag/#.VtwLfOaQrWt
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Don't know what your budget is Elliot but this might help - £646 or £538 if you can reclaim the VAT through the farm business you live on. http://www.sportsmanguncentre.co.uk/savage-model-25-17-hornet CZ is approx £100 more.
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Why not just save yourself the hunt and get a .17 Hornet? http://www.shootinguk.co.uk/reviews/rifle/cz-527-17-hornet
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Scrap metal would have been my guess for the trophy's. After all you can't sell them as they're traceable due to the inscriptions, plus who wants someone else's medals? A famous soldier or pop star maybe, but someone in a niche sport, however good they may be, doesn't exactly attract a lot of potential buyers from the criminal set. Wish them both a good recovery and as I mentioned above, tell them to get a panic button / s. I have one that's wearable like a pendant albeit the only reason I have this was because I got it for my elderly mother when she was unwell as a fall / illness alarm.
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Maybe he only had 2 guns? I find that hard to believe though given his shooting status. Alternatively, maybe he had more than 1 safe and only disclosed the location of the one containing the overspill. In which case he's been pretty clever. I think there's a lot to be said for having a panic system as well as an alarm fitted plus ensuring the local police control room know that if they receive a burglar alarm call, it should be given a priority response as there are licensed firearms on the premises.
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That's the estate exemption and the person making the loan has to be the "Occupier". Whether that involves just the sporting rights or a more firm occupancy such as a person such as a sporting tenant, is the point that's open to question and somewhat grey. The other ways of borrowing rifles I'm aware of, all involve exemptions granted to registered clubs and shooting galleries, which aren't applicable to the OP's position of shooting on a farm. It's the greyness that makes borrowing rifles somewhat tricky. FAC and permission all the way to be 100% safe.
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The Daystate .303 above is 100 ft lbs and 935 fps, so doesn't suffer that issue. There's little point to them in the UK though.
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I think you're slightly confused Walshie. The advice I received was that in order to cover yourself if borrowing a rifle in the event that the person who held themselves out as Occupier, actually wasn't the Occupier in law, you need to be able to prove that they held themselves out as Occupier, that they held the shooting rights and had the right to grant permission to shoot (in their presence) by having that in writing. The issue of land permission is something entirely separate.
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The advice from the BASC was specifically in relation to shooting under the Estate Exemption where someone holds themselves out as "Occupier". Obviously that's different to a general shoot permission where the person using the gun holds an FAC themselves, although it's always wise to get every permission in writing if possible.
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Deker, like I said I'm not going to argue. There are no inaccuracies in what I've said. What the BASC said to me is reported above as I remember it and I have no reason to remember different. Bottom line is, in the REAL World, it's down to you to PROVE in Court what you say. Anything verbal comes down to your word against someone else's. Safest way as Charlie says, get your own FAC attached to that land. If not, get any Occupancy claims and related permissions in writing.
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So, after saying Just be aware it needs to be in writing in #8 you now concede it makes no difference if it is verbal, it may just be harder to prove. Yes, I know better than what you have reported the BASC as saying! There is NO difference in English Law between a written and verbal agreement and any permission from the Occupier, does NOT need to be in writing!! And nobody can write a binding contract applicable in this country that does not comply with British Law (and God forbid EU law as well I suspect), so it makes no odds whatsoever if you have permission in writing or verbal
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The latest Firearms Guidance in 6.18 suggests that the definition of "Occupier" that should be adopted is that found in S27 of Wildlife and Countryside Act - However, they are guidelines and any force is free to reject that interpretation as the guidelines have no force in law and thus each force is free to interpret it any way they like until a definitive definition is established by a higher Court or by further legislation. I believe that's the BASC's point on this as to why it's grey and care is needed and thus why the definition you mention above might be the one followed.
