Jump to content

Alsone

Members
  • Content count

    1,434
  • Joined

  • Last visited

Community Reputation

336 Excellent

About Alsone

  • Rank
    Extreme Hunter

Profile Information

  • Gender
    Male
  • Location
    Middle of nowhere

Recent Profile Visitors

490 profile views
  1. Alsone

    ever shot a mole

    Dynamite fishing as it's known is a well tested technique and illegal in most countries because of the damage that dynamite (not bangers) does to the surrounding environment and because of the indiscriminate fish killed. Yeah the shock kills / stuns. I'd imagine it might be possible to stun fish with a rifle shot because of the shockwave ahead of the bullet if it was near enough to the target.
  2. Alsone

    ever shot a mole

    The trout is a good catch if you excuse the pun as the water refracts the light and the fish are never normally, where they appear to be from the surface. Makes it very difficult to nigh impossible to successfully shoot them. I think that's one of the reasons traditional fish spears have spread out prongs.
  3. Alsone

    Calibre question,new ground.

    I don't doubt it for a minute Walshie. Deker asked why some forces / the Home Office put limits on certain calibres and I gave a reason. It doesn't mean .22LR is unsuitable for fox. It means it's suitable to certain distances with a certain skill level. Suitable to further distances with a higher skill level, and at some further distances beyond that, or beyond the persons maximum range for their skill level, the ratio of kill to wounding starts to increase in which case in the interests of being humane, there are better choices to be made. There's absolutely no doubt you can have too much power close in. It's all horses for courses based on prey, skill level, weather and wind pretty much as Deker indicated above. The only thing Deker didn't make a point about which I did, is the fact that beyond certain distances for certain skill levels any calibre becomes less humane and when that point is reached the responsible shooter goes up a level to something which gives more of a margin for error.
  4. Alsone

    Calibre question,new ground.

    I have done it with .22LR. It's as I said above it's not about whether or not something will kill, it's about margins and instant death and repeatability. We all know .22lR will kill fox humanely out to 50-60yds. Some would say further, but again we're talking margins. HMR will kill fox further. However, there becomes a point where the risk of wounding increases and the percentage of instantaneous kills for joe average starts to fall / potentially fall, and it's at that point that where it's time to consider something with a little more punch. Yes there are lots of factors involved. But people make mistakes and the whole point behind the restrictions some police forces and indeed the Home Office make with recommendations are not based on whether something will kill in skilled hands, or will kill 50% of the time, they're about how well something will kill with Joe Average's shooting skills 90% of the time. That's overkill for a skilled shot, yes, but for very good reason.
  5. Alsone

    Calibre question,new ground.

    We can argue all day about what's suitable. As I've often said before Deker, you can kill anything with anything. There are people who've killed wild boar with .22LR and people who've been killed themselves in accidents with 6ft lbs air pistols, something that weight consideration vs energy would suggest is impossible. The choice of calibre for hunting all comes down to skill and humanity. Depending on who you believe, it takes between 35-115ft lbs to kill a fox and at least 1 reputable site (one with the low figure) suggests a maximum sized 1.5" lethal zone at 35ft lbs. The latter pretty much sums up why many police forces and others don't recommend LR for fox over 50yds or so for the average shot, or some even at all. Whilst LR has a bit more than 35ft lbs @ 100yds, how many Joe Averages can reliably put the shot into a 1.5" circle at that range often from standing or sticks? Of course again it comes down to whether or not you believe the 1.5" lethal target area with that energy, but then again that's another argument. The whole point of a more powerful calibre with more energy and velocity i it buys you more leeway to be less precise in where you hit the animal as the effects of hydrostatic shot are much wider spread. Therefore someone less than an expert shot, or who makes a shot affected by wind drift or badly judged drop, or sudden animal movement or just badly aimed, is more likely to be humane despite those failings with a more powerful calibre, and that's why many police forces aren't keen on low power rimfires for a fox sized target. It's not about what will kill, but what will kill reliably with a less than perfect shot from Joe Average. The whole humanity argument is also why I prefer more explosive and more powerful calibres rather than those at the bottom of each recommendation for each category of animal. I'd rather take a little more noise and recoil, over risk of wounding.
  6. Alsone

    Calibre question,new ground.

    HMR is a bad choice for that location. I know the Peak District, the majority of it is high, very exposed and the moors are frequently very windy and HMR doesn't buck the wind very well. Even in the valleys the wind can tunnel down although only you know your exact location and it's quirks. HMR although accepted as fox suitable is still quite marginal in power and on completely open land, you're probably unlikely to be shooting a close range. Again wind drift might cause wounding. 40 acres is small but equally, given the windy location I'd suggest you probably want a CF for more velocity and a heavier pill to buck the wind. If you were going to go rimfire, consider a .22 Magnum. A little more range, heavier bullet and more energy. That said, I'm guessing you're under Derbyshire Constabulary and they have no issues with issuing CF. Covering large areas of rural land, they've always been pretty understanding of shooting needs. Like SY these days, they prefer CF for fox as I understand it. Although I didn't like the calibre in it's early days because of it's reputation to splash with 32gr bullets, something now seemingly rectified, .204 would seem to me to be a good choice here with 39gr ammunition. Very fast, very flat shooting, more explosively destructive than almost any other .22 calibre and more resistant to wind drift than even some other fast .22's with similar weight (39gr) ammunition such as .22-250 or .220 Swift. Failing that, the "chav" calibre of .223, is pretty much a given as another choice. However, I'd certainly;y give 39gr .204 some consideration.
  7. Alsone

    22lr first shooting help

    You're probably right Deker although I have heard differing explanations. One way a bullet can be sub sonic but also supersonic in theory is it's possible for a tumbling edge to be supersonic whilst the rest of the bullet is not. A good example of this is the tip of a helicopter blade where the blade may be subsonic but the tip may be supersonic (it travels a further distance that the rest of the blade so the tip is also travelling faster than the rest of the blade). That could happen with a folded out petal on a bullet. However, I suspect you're right and I was wrong, it most probably is just the deformed shape forming a passage that air can pass through quickly causing a siren effect on a few bullets. As an aside, interesting analysis of ricochet here: https://www.bevfitchett.us/ballistics/ricochet-analysis-introduction.html
  8. Alsone

    22lr first shooting help

    When you say not 1 ric, just be aware most don't make the typical cowboy ping sound. A look at the tracer video will show that most ric's are silent (at least from the shooters pov). You're only going to get the ping sound when the ric breaks the sound barrier. Otherwise you might not hear a thing. I never heard a thing from the one that came towards me up until I could hear the deformed bullet pushing the air out of the way. Then it was a quiet rushing sound not a ping. Like I said above, caution is the way forward. There's no need to be over the top but equally just be surroundings aware as they can happen especially with LR ammo. Happy shooting.
  9. Alsone

    22lr first shooting help

    I'm glad you've put your mind at ease. Ricochets aren't predictable, they usually arise because of the factors already discussed, stones in the ground, shallow angles, wet grass. There's nothing you can do to guarantee you won't get a ricochet, just try to avoid conditions you know are likely to cause them and try to shoot in a direction where they'll be unlikely to leave your land if they do occur. No LR ricochet is going to go 1000 yds or even 100yds. The deformed bullet will nearly always lose energy at less than 100 yds. I would estimate the one in my case travelled around 40-50yds after the rabbit. There's been a lot of stirring in this thread. However, I still stand by what I said, that .22LR is more prone than many other calibres. That doesn't mean .22LR or every shot is dangerous. It just means use a bit more awareness of your surroundings.
  10. Alsone

    22lr first shooting help

    He wasn't supposed to be shooting. He was taking care of some maintenance in a barn. I told him I was going to go down the property with my air rifle whilst he was doing that. So I went out, he went in the barn doing maintenance. He knew I was out and in which direction I'd gone. After about 20 mins, I was walking back to the barn along the edge of field adjacent to the path through the property but behind a broken line of bushes that were acting as hedging, when he in the meantime had come out of the barn, and instead of waiting for me to return, had spotted a rabbit on the stony path, decided that I was still somewhere a long way down the property and seeing the property ahead and sight picture behind the rabbit was clear, decided to take the shot for the rabbit. A bad decision and one that really shows how sometimes you have resist taking shots that maybe unsafe even if at 1st glance they appear relatively safe. All the indicators from his position showed the shot to be safe apart from the fact that he knew I was some where ahead. In his mind, given no-one was in sight, he believed I was several fields away - presumption is the mother of all f*ckups as they say. So having no-one in sight, a clear sight picture and what appeared to be a safe and clear backstop, he took the shot. As I've already indicated, the Winchester sub passed through the rabbit, hit a stone in the path, deformed and ricocheted without a noise, although I could hear the deformed bullet coming towards me from the air it was pushing out of the way. I stood there and heard the bullet pass over might right should not too many feet away. A clearly very danergous situation and one that shows the danger of presuming something is safe rather than knowing something is safe.
  11. Alsone

    22lr first shooting help

    I don't think I ever suggested anything other than that. I just said I wasn't a fan.
  12. Alsone

    22lr first shooting help

    Deker any calibre can ricochet but some are more to prone to others and that includes ones that don't have sufficient energy to fragment the bullet (.22LR) and all calibres firing FMJ or solid bullets. I don't need to take lectures from you. I've had over 40yrs shooting experience. I might not be a range officer or shoot at Bisley, but I know about shooting safety and I've 1st hand experience of .22LR. I've had plenty of experience with .22LR and there are plenty of experts who are more highly regarded within shooting than you, not to take anything away from your experience of course, who hold a similar view about .22LR. If the OP wants to see from himself, by far the best way is with tracers as in the video above after dark or before sunrise. The best way forward instead of continued personal comments is simply to agree to disagree. The one thing we can universally agree on, is the OP should bear in mind that a bullet can ricochet and when considering a shot, this should always be taken into account.
  13. Alsone

    22lr first shooting help

    I can't make a case for an FAC because I have no land over which to shoot which means no good reason. Nor can I afford the equipment to shoot atm. One your second point, it's not based on reading, although maybe you should read as on practically every forum other than this, ricochet from .22LR is discussed at length as it is with many experts.That's hundreds of experienced shooters who disagree with you. Sometimes it seems Deker than no-one can hold a view different to yours. I have plenty of experience with .22LR. I don't like it from a ricochet pov period. Your welcome to your view, but that is mine, and we beg to differ. Please feel free to love your .22RF. It has it's place and for some uses it can't be bettered, even I would use it, but equally your view and mine on it's propensity to ricochet are different. I'm not even going to justify the safety pov. Suffice to say I've been properly trained and know what I'm doing on both range and field That said, I'd never rule out learning in either the field, range or online video. You joke about online sources, but there are plenty of video sources of people making mistakes that make you learn a little bit more caution everyday. To some they may be fun and something to laugh at, but there's nearly always a lesson in every one. In the field and on the range, it never hurts to learn from others. Dave, if you want to test for ricochets, easy way is to get your hands on some tracer ammunition. It's rare in the UK and expensive but exists. I think RWS used to make some. Although you can see it in the day, at dusk, dawn or night, it really comes into it's own in showing what your shots are really doing. You'd be surprised sometimes as even without a crack, bullets can go astray. At the risk of further criticism of Deker for using reading or online media, here's a little something of interest - .22 tracer. I'd call that rather a high ratio of ricochet to shots - still think .22LR isn't prone?:
  14. Alsone

    22lr first shooting help

    Deker, I've spent plenty of time in the field with .22LR and military range safety procedures are exactly transferable to the field. They're far more stringent than most shooters practice as I'm sure you know. Basic principles such as being aware of where a gun is pointing at all times even when believed to be unloaded and safe, including with rifles elevation (because of the 1.5 mile safety range of .22LR), (which is something every field shooter should be aware of anyway), and clearing a gun properly and safely using the magazine removal, 3 cycle rule and a visual check are just 2 examples of range safety procedures that transfer anywhere. In the field there are additional rules such as procedures for crossing over gates etc. But military range procedure is far more stringent than what the average civilian knows how to practice, unless trained or shown by a military trainer. Also, just because I don't currently have good reason for an FAC currently doesn't mean I haven't had plenty of .22LR experience outside of a range. You're making assumptions. You are correct in that I have fired military weapons on the range including as you realised the Belgium made FN FAL 7.62 semi-auto, commonly known as the British SLR sleeved down to .22 for range use, and yes, you're highly unlikely to ever experience a ricochet on a properly designed range. I still hold my opinion on .22LR though, and if you don't agree, that's fine. We can agree to disagree on .22LR's propensity to ricochet. Suffice to say, I'm not personally a fan, although I do appreciate there are things .22LR can do well, that other calibres can't, moderation being the main one.
  15. Alsone

    22lr first shooting help

    Thanks for your opinion Walshie, but I have plenty of experience with .22LR. I'm also not the only one in this thread who's experienced ricochets more with .22LR than other calibres. DaveT, I couldn't agree more. You're far safer on your own (unless you shoot yourself of course in which case there's no-one to give 1st aid!). There were a whole lot of circumstances leading up to how this came about and I'm not about to clog the forum up with a long tale. Suffice to say, he thought I was several fields away. The simple safety mistake though is you never take a shot when you know someone may be forwards of your position. If someone else is known to be on the land you're shooting over, you only take a shot if you know their position and it's safe to do so. Presumption is the mother of all accidents. I'm glad you've taken the time to seek opinion and are employing caution. So many people get a ticket and then treat it like a driving licence. With guns especially, safety is best taught not left to chance. Luckily I was taught by a military range officer and safety training doesn't come much better. I just hope I learnt what I was taught.
×