SHOW US YOUR PATTERDALES

[downsouth 8,547]

1 hour ago, Rabbit Hunter said:

I don’t agree with that Glyn. I think the odd terrier that is totally mute and reckless will maybe do what you say. But the average working terrier is in some way working for it’s owner as much as itself. 

I think that’s the main idea of digging pups in east spots, to get them in to the routine of entering, working, being dug to (repeat, repeat and so on). Until it’s second nature to them and they have total trust in you that you’ll be digging them whether they’re in 10 minutes or 5 hours.

Spot on RH.I personally think even the best of digging dogs would soon start coming off quicker and quicker if you was to keep allowing them to go to ground without digging them.Im not saying they do it to please their owner but i difinately think they see you as a teammate.

[Glyn..... 5,235]

3 hours ago, Rabbit Hunter said:

I don’t agree with that Glyn. I think the odd terrier that is totally mute and reckless will maybe do what you say. But the average working terrier is in some way working for it’s owner as much as itself. 

I think that’s the main idea of digging pups in easy spots, to get them in to the routine of entering, working, being dug to (repeat, repeat and so on). Until it’s second nature to them and they have total trust in you that you’ll be digging them whether they’re in 10 minutes or 5 hours.

We'll have to agree to disagree RH most of my terriers have been and are at the moment bayer mixers , some almost total out and out bayers until just before daylight , i have like most had mute and reckless ,but reckless dont last long enough to be counted,

next time you put daylight on their backs  ask them to step back pretty sure they won't , it's a bit like being able to call a dog out some people rate such dogs i don't , i usually have a wrestling match until its back  on couples   as far as i'm concerned they do it for themselves   

[Rabbit Hunter 6,613]

So Glyn, by your way of thinking, would you say then that a terrier when entered as a youngster should stay until dug no matter what the depth as they are working for themselves?

[Glyn..... 5,235]

26 minutes ago, Rabbit Hunter said:

So Glyn, by your way of thinking, would you say then that a terrier when entered as a youngster should stay until dug no matter what the depth as they are working for themselves?

i've been at this long enough that i only enter a pup where i'm   in full control which means no great depth , which as much for my  benefit so i can stay in control if a pup enters finds engauges  i expect it to stay yes , i find with the very best  when entering them you are often trying to save them form themselves , if a terrier is working i'll leave it there for some time if getting a rough deal i step in , just because they are selfish little b*****ds doesn't mean i have to be , because i'm the Brains or to hope to be of the operation there to rescue my terrier if he gets him sevles in difficulty   ...

i had a day out tracking no joy i stopped to take a photo hadn't tied my pup properly and she went into some rushes and flushed a hare , it took me a hour to cut her off and catch her around and around we went and i hate running now to old , but she was doing it for me she most of thought i needed the exercise  

Edited January 23, 2019 by Glyn.....

[Rabbit Hunter 6,613]

I understand your viewpoint on this Glyn, but say you had an unentered pup that went to ground in an earth that you thought was only shallow but ended up say 8 foot deep. Would you expect the pup to stay there until you dug it out? 

Don’t get me wrong, I know there’s some terriers that are born naturals that just work and stay from day one but IMO they are a small minority. 

[Glyn..... 5,235]

RH i'm lucky i have some great tiny puppy places , but i have f****d up , once entered a 12 month old pup on a hunting day in to a tight little place the reason i used the pup , it was only 3 foot but 3 foot of sand and sand stone seems took 6 of us 3 hours to get to him, he hadn't had it all his own way he didn't want me to take him out when i got to him he worked in to old age and plenty saw him go  

[dillydog 8,530]

No two dogs are the same, I've had some that work for themselves,  mainly dog rather than bitches. I was once sent a dog that was way to hard for a well know terrier man from down south.  The dog was dug to on the morning he landed and he was just as daft as I'd been told, although he'd got away with it on this occasion.  When I got back to the kennels (you'll know the place Glyn) he got into it with my lurcher, long story short he ran off and went to ground in a big badger sett at the top of the field. This place is right on a footpath,  no chance I could of quickly had him out, no harm done. It took me three f***ing days to catch that dog in a fox trap, as I said,  he was mute and very head strong. He had the choice to work for himself but chose not to, strange place, his world had just collapsed and so on, but that taught me there and then that they're more of a team player than a one man operation. 

 

[Glyn..... 5,235]

8 minutes ago, dillydog said:

No two dogs are the same, I've had some that work for themselves,  mainly dog rather than bitches. I was once sent a dog that was way to hard for a well know terrier man from down south.  The dog was dug to on the morning he landed and he was just as daft as I'd been told, although he'd got away with it on this occasion.  When I got back to the kennels (you'll know the place Glyn) he got into it with my lurcher, long story short he ran off and went to ground in a big badger sett at the top of the field. This place is right on a footpath,  no chance I could of quickly had him out, no harm done. It took me three f***ing days to catch that dog in a fox trap, as I said,  he was mute and very head strong. He had the choice to work for himself but chose not to, strange place, his world had just collapsed and so on, but that taught me there and then that they're more of a team player than a one man operation. 

 

Yes Dilly i know it , all i can say is i've never had  a dog in soil , i haven't got to , so i cant say if they would of given up in the end had them in Rocks for days  but that's another game , and the terrier is very often on its own anyway , but they keep going to work , the longest ever had a terrier working not trapped in soil was 22-23 hours, we entered him in the afternoon only 7 foot mark dug hit  slabs of rock carried on for a few hours were told by the farmer to f**k off as we were keeping his dogs barking and he had to be up for milking , we left the dog there for 7-8 hours before we started to dig again got the dog about mid-day he could of come out any time ... so i'm not sure what you are all saying , is it your dogs only stay if they hear you digging , what happens when you work them in really deep rock piles ?

[dillydog 8,530]

I'm not saying that at all Glyn,  what I'm saying is that you can have terriers that live to work, that are driven to work and come hell or high water they'll stay no matter what. Then on the flip side and no lesser of a dog you'll have the intelligent dog that wants to please you and works with you to get the job done.

I've still got the two litter brothers here that I showed you by message, ones not wired up right, intelligent and biddable but still not right once he's switched on. The other brother is steady as a rock, very biddable and a pleasure to own, he's the dog I dug through rock to last week at 11 ft. Once I broke through I was expecting the worst but he'd got one little knock on his chops, to me the perfect dog.  Both from the same litter but completely different animals,  we've all got our own opinions formed from different things we've seen over the years mate.

 

[dogmandont 10,063]

2 hours ago, Rabbit Hunter said:

I understand your viewpoint on this Glyn, but say you had an unentered pup that went to ground in an earth that you thought was only shallow but ended up say 8 foot deep. Would you expect the pup to stay there until you dug it out? 

Don’t get me wrong, I know there’s some terriers that are born naturals that just work and stay from day one but IMO they are a small minority. 

I’d be very disappointed if a young dog came away on a 8 ft dig even if it was his first. 

[howdeeposxxt 1,449]

8 minutes ago, dogmandont said:

I’d be very disappointed if a young dog came away on a 8 ft dig even if it was his first. 

If terrier was on his quarry and walked away from it to me that's a jacker and the worst possible start and a very quick end to his/her working life. From day one they need to be consistent.

[chesney 5,730]

2 minutes ago, howdeeposxxt said:

If terrier was on his quarry and walked away from it to me that's a jacker and the worst possible start and a very quick end to his/her working life. From day one they need to be consistent.

Come on lads seriously educated game in a big place could easily make a young dog look very foolish the gamble can pay of and he should stay and see it out but it can just as easy go the other way. 

[roundmouth86 251]

7 hours ago, Rabbit Hunter said:

I don’t agree with that Glyn. I think the odd terrier that is totally mute and reckless will maybe do what you say. But the average working terrier is in some way working for it’s owner as much as itself. 

I think that’s the main idea of digging pups in easy spots, to get them in to the routine of entering, working, being dug to (repeat, repeat and so on). Until it’s second nature to them and they have total trust in you that you’ll be digging them whether they’re in 10 minutes or 5 hours.

Totally agree 

[roundmouth86 251]

So if a dog doesn’t need any encouragement to be dug from the off and they only do it for themselves why does it take longer to get some entered rather than others? It’s a team effort in my opinion and when a dogs confidence is sky high Because of how well he’s kept and educated he or she is more often than not going to be the best animal he can be, otherwise they’d all just be locked in the pen until 16 months old then hey presto another legend. Rabbit hunter I’m definitely with you on this one but hey what do I know Glyn ?!

[howdeeposxxt 1,449]

15 minutes ago, chesney said:

Come on lads seriously educated game in a big place could easily make a young dog look very foolish the gamble can pay of and he should stay and see it out but it can just as easy go the other way. 

I would not hold onto a terrier that walked from its quarry that's just me. If I happened to meet educated stuff and had to dig an extra hole or 2 for a young dog  id be alright with that but to walk out and leave its game their I would not be happy.