Checking a few earths

[joe cash 0]

Cracking pics mate and nice dogs also looks like yous had a great day

[Big bald beautiful 1,231]

it aint about you or your dogs its about non foxing people trying to pull wool over peoples eyes.

if you dont work fox so be it, if you just hunt rabbits brilliant but folks saying there dogs work something they dont and a few months ago didnt know how to is just wrong.

 

yep everyone has to learn but to bull shit folk into believing it is just daft.

its as bad as counting dead rats when the dogs havnt taken them, seen it done before you ask.

(that isnt aimed at anyone posting on here)

[Big bald beautiful 1,231]

the russel looks a nice dog and looks like he liked his work

[shinyspade 2]

well lets see what the future holds then for mr and mrs keeps. for myself and of cource you. look forward to your posts and good hunting to you

[Big bald beautiful 1,231]

ok

billy orange will do

[Keeps 403]

Really nice pics Keeps - sounds like you a had a good day out (despite the heckling)

 

Thank you lurchergrrl - we had an excellent day, and I'm looking forward to the next

[OldNog 432]

good stuff and good photos aswell

 

keep us updated on the plummers aswell! will be intrested in how they get on

[foxdropper 17,092]

The resent pm from admin has hands tied in regards to saying things as they are but please -Lets see pics of terriers WORKING to ground and not just on couples .I know every youngster has to start somewhere but you are asking for a hard time by parading mutiple terriers that havnt seen a thing .I for one would love to see a coloured terrier up close and personal in a pic so please ,lets have one and put this stupid Plummer shite thing to bed .

Next time out Keeps ,dont take the blacks !.

[Keeps 403]

Foxdropper, I didn't - I don't own any blacks and I didnt take any with me, I took an adult plummer bitch and her pup, in the hope that I'd get to use her to ground. Deep dig had an adult black terrier out with him on loan, because his two are still only pups and it was his permission we were on that day. But unlike some I am not "racist" - I like to see a terrier work and I don't care what breed or strain it is; I was very happy to see the one we had with us work, and she worked very well - albeit at the same time I was wishing that it was mine that we had tried to ground in that particular earth and I think that those are deep digs sentiments also - my bitch is the dam of one of his pups but thats the way it worked out that day - I could have not bothered posting and only posted when I had the red & white dogs working, but I didnt, I posted an honest account of what happened. Its just nice to be out there isnt it.. Next time I might put up another post - though I have to say theres far too much negativity regarding the breed to make me wonder whether it is really worth the effort.

 

The pups sire, who belonged to deep dig- very sadly he died just a few weeks after they were born; this is the reason we bred a litter in winter last year - because we knew that he didnt have long left to live and we didnt want to lose his blood.. Its also the reason why deep dig doesnt have an adult dog of his own to work this season.

 

 

 

 

People really shouldn't knock those who continue to try to work their dogs, whatever their colour or breed happens to be. Makes you wonder who's side they are on, ours or the anti's, and we had a bit of a run in with one of them when we were out last Sunday.

[Blake 2]

Nice one !

Edited November 18, 2008 by Steve Summers

[PeakOil 352]

Nice pics!!

[dog fox 16]

mr & mrs keeps ,who cares what other people think ,it was a good post and some nice dogs and best of luck with them ,and hope it all works out for you,s

[VOON 1,313]

Keeps,

 

Nice photo's of Deep dig's dog in action. He is a smasher to look at!

 

As someone looking from the outside in ~ the negativity surrounding plummer terriers seems to be caused a couple of things.

 

1. They are viewed as a thinking man's dog i.e. Plummer bred them and wrote a lot about them also supporters of the breed are usually vociferous in the support of them and write a lot of articles to promote them.

2. A lot of people breeding plummers as bushing dogs etc and this versatility is causing people to question what they view as the number one objective of a working terrier, working foxes.

3. the proliferation of Plummer Associations has numbed peoples brains regarding "Pure Plummers" "Outcross Plummers" "Best Plummers". Have these associations damaged the plummer terriers because of Cliques and breeders not gaining access to working dogs or heavily inbreeding to whatever dogs are the top studs in their associations.

4. Price . some breeders seem to be intent on breeding for money. Average Price for working terrier pups 200STG ~ some plummers going for 400STG.

 

This post is not to get at you, Keeps, your heart seems to be in the dogs. I'd say keep working them and posting the results. Have you thought of a verified working database i.e. people who work the dogs to all quarry going on approved stud list or something. I'm not sure of the legality of it in the UK.

 

The only way forward for dogs is to promote their working capabilities. If the PTA get Kennel Club recognition in the next while, maybe working type and show type will emerge.

 

Voon.

[Keeps 403]

You have made some good points Voon, and a lot, in fact most of what you have said I agree with and I agree that there are many that do much damage from inside the breed by their actions and behaviour.

 

As far as having a database of verified working dogs, that would be fairly difficult to operate, as everyone's view of what constitutes a good worker is very different, and how do you set a benchmark to verify them? Theres no way of measuring how good a dog is unless its actually seen in action by many different people. Most of those who work their dogs and breed for work, will have seen the dog they intend using at stud working, and will be happy with that, but again, everyones opinion of what is a good dog differs, and this is for any breed/type of terrier, not just plummers; its a personal thing. There are many within "plummer world" who are already sharing studs between the "outcross" "pure's" pta, ptcgb etc etc and there are some very nice young dogs resulting from this, most plummer owners, with the exception of a small minority, who by their own actions have ostracised themselves, have access to whatever stud dogs they would wish to use.

 

KC recognition (if it is achieved) will alter type, and sadly that already appears to be happening, with some people breeding specifically for looks and for showing (eg not docking even when they are able to) and breeding specifically for colour and coat patterns; that will only continue with greater emphasis. I have never wanted the dogs to gain KC recognition and have said so from the very start, I can't see any benefit of this from a working point of view, but its being pushed forward by those wishing to add a few £££ to the already inflated prices they are charging with the adage that "it was Brians wishes".

 

And as for Coleville Sony, yes he was a smasher, I hope his daughters do him proud

[VOON 1,313]

You have made some good points Voon, and a lot, in fact most of what you have said I agree with and I agree that there are many that do much damage from inside the breed by their actions and behaviour.

 

As far as having a database of verified working dogs, that would be fairly difficult to operate, as everyone's view of what constitutes a good worker is very different, and how do you set a benchmark to verify them? Theres no way of measuring how good a dog is unless its actually seen in action by many different people. Most of those who work their dogs and breed for work, will have seen the dog they intend using at stud working, and will be happy with that, but again, everyones opinion of what is a good dog differs, and this is for any breed/type of terrier, not just plummers; its a personal thing. There are many within "plummer world" who are already sharing studs between the "outcross" "pure's" pta, ptcgb etc etc and there are some very nice young dogs resulting from this, most plummer owners, with the exception of a small minority, who by their own actions have ostracised themselves, have access to whatever stud dogs they would wish to use.

 

KC recognition (if it is achieved) will alter type, and sadly that already appears to be happening, with some people breeding specifically for looks and for showing (eg not docking even when they are able to) and breeding specifically for colour and coat patterns; that will only continue with greater emphasis. I have never wanted the dogs to gain KC recognition and have said so from the very start, I can't see any benefit of this from a working point of view, but its being pushed forward by those wishing to add a few £££ to the already inflated prices they are charging with the adage that "it was Brians wishes".

 

And as for Coleville Sony, yes he was a smasher, I hope his daughters do him proud

 

 

Keeps,

 

Best of luck with Coleville's daughters ~ hope they fly for yourself and Mr Keeps.

 

 

Database for working terriers would be hard to operate ~ you'd always get accusations of cliques etc with dissatified breeders. Maybe if you had a committee of working judges and to get a fully approved stud by the working plummer terrier association,a dog would have to satisfy a panel of working ability. you still breed, registar unapproved dogs etc maybe a gold medal approval. A breeder could push for it for one of his dogs if she/he wished. Maybe something like MFH working certs. Does seem hard to know who is working what in plummer world

 

Keep the posts coming on how the pups work for you.

 

Voon.