Sheep Issue

[mC HULL 10,476]

18 hours ago, sandymere said:

i'd agree, we have greyhounds in my lifetime that will have been the fastest racing dogs to have ever graced this earth, coursing dogs in Spain, North Africa and i believe the UK that are the pinnacle of their type and collies that would put their ancestors to shame. But the day of the dog as more than a pet is coming to an end and with it the superlatives that we were lucky enough to have witnessed and I'm just glad that I did not just witness it but raced the greyhounds and ran the hares.

 

 

and i believe the uk  

uk coursing breds make them spanish dogs look like culls on hares sandy you know that  

[sandymere 8,261]

4 minutes ago, mC HULL said:

and i believe the uk  

uk coursing breds make them spanish dogs look like culls on hares sandy you know that  

Only in your head lol.

[mC HULL 10,476]

31 minutes ago, sandymere said:

Only in your head lol.

you need some re education my mate  

Edited March 9, 2022 by mC HULL

[mackem 23,917]

7 hours ago, sandymere said:

Convergent evolution. It wouldn't be a massive shift to go from pye to dingo.

Pye-dog - Wikipedia

EN.WIKIPEDIA.ORG

 

Seen thousands of them over the years, nervy barking mangy fuckers,one of my sons was bitten by one once and had rabies shots, I used to carry a catapult after that. 

[Neal 1,795]

2 hours ago, SheepChaser said:

Two observations -

1 - people want the ‘wild’ in their animals, they think it makes them edgy. EU polecats being a good example.

2 - lots of Kelpies are yappy, scatty wastes of space, not wonder dogs from afar. 

Phew! I'm glad I've been lucky to avoid those ones when I've bought my six.

[Black neck 15,182]

2 minutes ago, Neal said:

Phew! I'm glad I've been lucky to avoid those ones when I've bought my six.

You know what the say 

It's always the 7th

[SheepChaser 8,082]

39 minutes ago, Neal said:

Phew! I'm glad I've been lucky to avoid those ones when I've bought my six.

I know you’re a big Kelpie fan and I understand why. All I’m saying is they are one of those breeds which people think are ‘cool’ to have as your work dog. And in reality lots of the ones I’ve seen hve been shite. Yes hat is mostly probably down to training and handling, but also probably breeding. 

[shaaark 10,168]

1 hour ago, SheepChaser said:

I know you’re a big Kelpie fan and I understand why. All I’m saying is they are one of those breeds which people think are ‘cool’ to have as your work dog. And in reality lots of the ones I’ve seen hve been shite. Yes hat is mostly probably down to training and handling, but also probably breeding. 

That's a tad contentious, sheepy.

Plenty of people on here could say the same about bull crosses.

 

[mC HULL 10,476]

Just now, shaaark said:

That's a tad contentious, sheepy.

Plenty of people on here could say the same about bull crosses.

 

facking shite shaark id go herding cross before bull x id jack it in if all i could run were a bull x  

[SheepChaser 8,082]

38 minutes ago, shaaark said:

That's a tad contentious, sheepy.

Plenty of people on here could say the same about bull crosses.

 

They’d probably be right as well. 
 

But, I don’t think it is contentious really (to say either ). I probably see more Kelpies, Huntaways, collies and other herders than most folk on here I would think ? And very few are impressive.

That could be said of most breeds of working dogs though,  most of them are very average.

A good example would be one of the estates I run sheep on. There are four of us with working stock dogs on the estate. There is Me with my gang of collies, that can do anything needed with any type of stock. And then the other three all have Kelpies, one lad has two and the others have one each. From what I can tell they only really picked the Kelpie, because it was cool, quite Instagram popular, made them seem like a kiwi etx. Out of those four dogs, only one is marginally useful and two of the others do nothing but bark, run around and irritate the feck out of everyone. They travelled all over the country and spent Mega bucks to source the pups etc.

Just seems that when things are ‘cool’ and ‘popular’ they start to often lack substance. 

[SheepChaser 8,082]

38 minutes ago, mC HULL said:

facking shite shaark id go herding cross before bull x id jack it in if all i could run were a bull x  

Don’t you start. You know what I run and how they run  

[shaaark 10,168]

2 minutes ago, SheepChaser said:

Just seems that when things are ‘cool’ and ‘popular’ they start to often lack substance

You made a couple of good points in that post, sheepy, and I certainly agree with the above.

[SheepChaser 8,082]

Just now, shaaark said:

You made a couple of good points in that post, sheepy, and I certainly agree with the above.

The Aussie Kelpies I’ve seen working on stations (same goes for NZ) were totally different to most of the dross I’ve seen in the uk. Mind you most collies I’ve seen are also shite!

[OldPhil 5,388]

Yes, I would go along with the Aussie dog analogy,...but obviously not everyone wants to buy a Drover's coat and matching Kelpie dog as an essential accessory,...a few good souls, genuinely do want to use them on the farm...

When the first batch of Kelpies hit the UK, their breeder was fairly adamant that she would only sell, to working Shepherds. I was after a pup, but fate led me down another path

Unfortunately, more than a few of these early jukels, seemed to end up in the hands of men who could barely shit straight, let alone school a working dog...

I had a few crazy canines brought to me , and they really were a poor looking bunch of total headcases. Most had been messed about and their mind set, completely fecked up..

Ruined beyond repair...

I always passed them straight on to shepherding lads, they all said the same thing,.. "I'll give them a fair go and if they don't cut it, I'll shoot them".. Fair enough...

The Border Collie gene pool in the UK, far outweighs the Kelpie and Huntaway bloodlines.

Facts are, we didn't really need the kelpie ,..we already have, a superlative herder in the Working Collie...

In saying this, I have seen a few useful Kelpies, and even one or two Bearded Collies giving the sheep job a fair go, but the Border Collie (in all its many diverse types, shapes and sizes), still reigns supreme,...in the UK..

However, as a base for a roustabout rabbiting/mouching style lurcher, I still like the Kelpie and ACD influence...

I have left it a tad too late, to breed from my wee Whippet /Collie hybrid,..so when the time comes, I'll go walkabout and try a find myself a nice sort of pup...I hope there will be a few available,.. but, nowadays,.. ya can just never tell, eh... 

Go careful lads, all the best, OldPhil.

 

 

 

Edited April 28, 2022 by OldPhil

[SheepChaser 8,082]

Great post Phil ..... as usual.

One thing I will say, a “working home” is a very subjective thing, in the world of all working dogs. 
 

The Huntaway and Kelpie were bred to work a certain way for certain jobs etc. They are first and fore most droving dogs, and yard dogs, yes they can gather to..... but it is driving big mobs that they excel at (when you get a good one).

So a man with 100 sheep, on a ring fenced, stock fenced farm of maybe 60-100 acres......... who needs to move / work his sheep maybe once a week or so...... will have a bored and not very good Kelpie.

The average flock of sheep in the uk is 300, but there are lots of smaller flocks. I see plenty of folk with 200 sheep and four collies.

To compare - when we ran about 8000 ewes, I ran 3-4 dogs, including one old one and one pup, and only ever really worked two at a time. But would expect the main dogs to work seven days a week. And I still struggled at times to keep all four flying. Sometimes I didn’t have a dog to run though