N.I

[dogmandont 9,369]

1 hour ago, waltjnr said:

This is how forum ,Internet, debates get out of hand ,it's not like a face to face conversation, Stiff obviously knows his stuff military ,its his career,but also has more to add to the debate ,just assuming he is just a soldier with nothing else to add ,when he is more qualified to add to this than most by sounds of it ,keeper ,poacher if you like ? 

What makes the man any more qualified than me or len for example??  Stiff is a soldier with irish connections, me len Francie Chid stop.end and few more on here live this shit every day of our lives. 

 

Edited April 9, 2021 by dogmandont

[WILF 44,334]

22 minutes ago, Rogerbill said:

I think most of the british army are highly trained pros doing a very hard job....but they have invaded half the world....not their fault....they take orders.....its their job.....its someones fault tho

To be fair, that is completely meaningless in relation to Ireland.

The whole conflict between Ireland and England is the result of nothing more than a divorce !

It really is a stupid as that......one divorce and everything else grew from that.

Prior to the Tudors there wasn’t a problem.....

[THE STIFFMEISTER 14,569]

15 minutes ago, dogmandont said:

Incoming clonard. 

The British and consecutive British governments and their armed forces have terrorised Ireland for hundreds of years right up to very recent times and you think they didn't use fear and intimidation to do that? and you think because its a professional army you can somehow take the moral high ground on the murder and intimidation of innocents, Na not having that for one second. 

 

 

No one is taking a moral high ground at all. 
but the historical fact is that republican terrorism was the overwhelming factor in civilian deaths in troubles 

just over half the the deaths recorded were civilians  

republican terrorism was responsible for 60% of deaths in the troubles . 

loyalist attacks around 30% 

the rest was attributed to the mix of security forces in their various guises. 
 

don’t paint a picture of the army cutting around gunning people down ad lib . We can argue tit for tat about aiden mcanespie , Bloody Sunday , Gibraltar, loughall , et al until the cows come home mate . 
 

but the disproportionate investigation against former soldiers and police officers is a fact also. Where is the kingsmill massacre investigation ? 
 

You need to draw a line in the sand somewhere and this culture Of rewriting history as an oppressed occupation by the faceless uk state and the jolly old boys of the old brigade with barley in their pockets fighting them needs to stop . 
 

the provos were a fierce , determined ruthless enemy ,they were as far from a people’s army as you can get . They were criminals hiding behind the mask of nationalism . Village napoleons who used the gun to extort and terrorise the population to line their own pockets . 
 

notning admirable about that 

 

[Chid 6,377]

6 minutes ago, WILF said:

To be fair, that is completely meaningless in relation to Ireland.

The whole conflict between Ireland and England is the result of nothing more than a divorce !

It really is a stupid as that......one divorce and everything else grew from that.

Prior to the Tudors there wasn’t a problem.....

Family argument lol king James was king Billy's father in law

[THE STIFFMEISTER 14,569]

32 minutes ago, Rogerbill said:

I think most of the british army are highly trained pros doing a very hard job....but they have invaded half the world....not their fault....they take orders.....its their job.....its someones fault tho

Thank you for your words . 
 

 I Don’t speak on behalf of the army , but I do for myself . I’ve never invaded anywhere. But what I have done Is I’ve seen the very best of men from both sides of the divide In Northern Ireland working under one team and being nothing less than utterly professional , burying their dead and the enemy in equal measure . Being a credit to their families and their communities. 
 

It was a pleasure to work with them and to this day , I still have that little shamrock on my helmet at work as a reminder on how to conduct yourself under the most taxing of conditions 

[Lenmcharristar 9,183]

4 minutes ago, THE STIFFMEISTER said:

Thank you for your words . 
 

 I Don’t speak on behalf of the army , but I do for myself . I’ve never invaded anywhere. But what I have done Is I’ve seen the very best of men from both sides of the divide In Northern Ireland working under one team and being nothing less than utterly professional , burying their dead and the enemy in equal measure . Being a credit to their families and their communities. 
 

It was a pleasure to work with them and to this day , I still have that little shamrock on my helmet at work as a reminder on how to conduct yourself under the most taxing of conditions 

Were you in the royal irish regiment? 

[littlefish 549]

11 hours ago, DIDO.1 said:

Agree with the last bit yeah.... 

Also you know I'd like to give everyone a kick up the arse and teach em patriotism isn't just chanting for the world Cup every few years......but if patriotism is about stoning kids because they are a different religion or having 100 years of pointless murdering of innocent people then I'd rather pay my subs and join corbyns communist party 

 

[THE STIFFMEISTER 14,569]

10 minutes ago, Lenmcharristar said:

Were you in the royal irish regiment? 

I had the honour ( and I use that term scarcely ) to be attached to them as a combat engineer on a tour of Afghanistan. 
 

from the top to the bottom they were a family , I was treated like one of their own and enjoyed every moment alongside them. 
 

in fact it was only last week my battle group t shirt gave up the ghost and a lad Is sending me a new one . FAB 

[WILF 44,334]

What I always wonder is, what is the cut off date for “English oppression” in Ireland ?

Because the reality of the story of Ireland is that it is no different to the story of Europe.

Invasions, land grabs, alliances, doubles crosses, raiding parties....there’s absolutely nothing special about the history of Ireland in relation to its bigger brother next door.

From Norse to Normans, old kings, provincial kings, high kings, lords, barons.....nothing has happened in Ireland that hasn’t happened everywhere else.

The Normans were invited by Irish kings because they wanted to nic the kingdom of some other Irish kings......I mean where does it end.

The Norman’s were French and yet Ireland was happy to ally themselves with the French ?........I don’t know, I just don’t get it.

[littlefish 549]

10 hours ago, THE STIFFMEISTER said:

What I always find amusing about the n I situation in a perverse way is there is a difference in the media . 
 

with the conflicts over the summer in the uk and the statues , anti police demonstrations et al there was a tongue in cheek type reporting . A polarising of views from mainstream media , the right to demonstrate, interviews with both sides etc . All very microcosmic reactions . 
 

but in n I there is always a graveness to the reporting . As if they know that in three to four days time it’s not a case of a changed venue or a social media Twitter spat , it’s more a case of “Michael , go dig the Kalashnikovs up my boy “ 

To describe either polarised fractions as meekly as chucking stones at kids mate is a bit simplistic . Think Francis , chid , dog man et al will correct me but wasn’t that situation a case of republicans using the lower ormeau road for school access by day and for republican crime activity at night ?  Hence the locals wanted the school access removed . 
 

agreed though a horrible Situation . What was nice to read though was the lady from Sinn Fein making the statement about backing the psni in this . A far cry from a the old Gerry adams dubbed videos

And a step in the right direction for all those  in that great little country

 

 

Where were they 'chucking stones at school kids'?

[Lenmcharristar 9,183]

1 minute ago, WILF said:

What I always wonder is, what is the cut off date for “English oppression” in Ireland ?

Because the reality of the story of Ireland is that it is no different to the story of Europe.

Invasions, land grabs, alliances, doubles crosses, raiding parties....there’s absolutely nothing special about the history of Ireland in relation to its bigger brother next door.

From Norse to Normans, old kings, provincial kings, high kings, lords, barons.....nothing has happened in Ireland that hasn’t happened everywhere else.

The Normans were invited by Irish kings because they wanted to nic the kingdom of some other Irish kings......I mean where does it end.

The Norman’s were French and yet Ireland was happy to ally themselves with the French ?........I don’t know, I just don’t get it.

We are a mix of scotch, irish and a dash of viking, just triple hard ba$tards, and to be fair most on the irish east coast have similar ancestry, 

[WILF 44,334]

Just now, Lenmcharristar said:

We are a mix of scotch, irish and a dash of viking, just triple hard ba$tards, and to be fair most on the irish east coast have similar ancestry, 

I know mate, I just mean in the geo political sense.

I can’t help sometimes but think that the “myth” of Irish v England has taken on a life of its own completely irrelevant of the facts.

History starts where the narrative starts and everything that went before is forgotten.

 

[dogmandont 9,369]

1 hour ago, THE STIFFMEISTER said:

No one is taking a moral high ground at all. 
but the historical fact is that republican terrorism was the overwhelming factor in civilian deaths in troubles 

just over half the the deaths recorded were civilians  

republican terrorism was responsible for 60% of deaths in the troubles . 

loyalist attacks around 30% 

the rest was attributed to the mix of security forces in their various guises. 
 

don’t paint a picture of the army cutting around gunning people down ad lib . We can argue tit for tat about aiden mcanespie , Bloody Sunday , Gibraltar, loughall , et al until the cows come home mate . 
 

but the disproportionate investigation against former soldiers and police officers is a fact also. Where is the kingsmill massacre investigation ? 
 

You need to draw a line in the sand somewhere and this culture Of rewriting history as an oppressed occupation by the faceless uk state and the jolly old boys of the old brigade with barley in their pockets fighting them needs to stop . 
 

the provos were a fierce , determined ruthless enemy ,they were as far from a people’s army as you can get . They were criminals hiding behind the mask of nationalism . Village napoleons who used the gun to extort and terrorise the population to line their own pockets . 
 

notning admirable about that 

 

Well written stiff ill give you that and a lot I totally agree with.

Im not the provo supporter you think I am you know, not once on this thread have I said anything of the sort but when threads like this come up on here it always goes down that road if anything negative is said about the British forces roll in NI then you must be a provo sympathiser and it just ain't the case. 

Anyway just like on here. Lol.   It's the loyalists that have started this latest bout of violence not Republicans but its already their fault. Lol. 

Edited April 9, 2021 by dogmandont

[THE STIFFMEISTER 14,569]

Good man mate ,

[stop.end 4,079]

6 minutes ago, dogmandont said:

Well written stiff ill give you that and a lot I totally agree with.

Im not the provo supporter you think I am you know, not once on this thread have I said anything of the sort but when threads like this come up on here it always goes down that road if anything negative is said about the British forces roll in NI then you must be a provo sympathiser and it just ain't the case. 

Anyway just like on here. Lol.  loyalists that have started this latest bout of violence not Republicans but its already their fault. Lol. 

That's all well and good fella but what you're talking about re writing history is the problem.... Facts should be told and why folk may have a different story. But you want it re wrote.. To sound romantic.. Lol when soldiers are involved it's war son??