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I had one for my lurcher when he was young as he was head strong and a general pain in the arse, watched a load of videos on YouTube how to use it properly and it worked a treat he only had a couple belts then just used the beeper on it after that and after a while you just phase it out 

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a mate took on a delinquent cocker spaniel he says its the only thing that saved it from being shot

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The fact that they enable perfect timing of the application and removal of 'punishing' stimulation, combined with effectively unlimited reach makes them a very powerful training tool. Especially for those who aren't expert dog trainers and have made mistakes that would take a long time or be impossible to correct through more generally accepted methods.

Bottom line, for some dogs they are the difference between living a fulfilling working life and potentially living a shit or short one and I really don't see any significant negative effects on the dog from their use.

Nobody ever only used 'positive reinforcement' to train anything comprehensively, especially dogs expected to work in the most highly stimulating environments.

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14 hours ago, Born Hunter said:

The fact that they enable perfect timing of the application and removal of 'punishing' stimulation, combined with effectively unlimited reach makes them a very powerful training tool. Especially for those who aren't expert dog trainers and have made mistakes that would take a long time or be impossible to correct through more generally accepted methods.

Bottom line, for some dogs they are the difference between living a fulfilling working life and potentially living a shit or short one and I really don't see any significant negative effects on the dog from their use.

Nobody ever only used 'positive reinforcement' to train anything comprehensively, especially dogs expected to work in the most highly stimulating environments.

spot on mate, they can be life or death for some dogs, more so lurchers that are bred to catch live game[ rabbits,hares,deer,foxes) , alot different   wounded bird( runner)  ,  lurcher got to be 100% sheep , some young dogs can get bit hot headed if they ran more than just rabbits . i never used one me self, i put load of work in the recall, and even now with my older dogs i still give odd few recalls, it never hurts . funny thing , i was toying with idea with my colliex grey bryn using one on him 8 years ago when he was 4 years old. not because he was bad behaved  nothing like that , it was this constant fooking staring at me, dont mean the odd glance , as the dog couldn't  walk 3 yds with out looking back at me. i know thats its not normal for a dog to act like this, i was told 8 years back thats it a manic temp of the collie in the dog, i counted once 52 times that twat turned back and looked. i thought maybe if he found looking back at me uncomfortable  he might not want to do it . but couple lads  who worked there dogs on the shoot back then, said this type temp he shows is to ingrained in him , and you never stop it even if he been 15 months old at the time, and there right you wont stop it, the dog 12 now , and its been long  hard 12 yeas for me , the lesson learned here never have a dog with lot of collie in its make up 1/4 more than enough  deff.

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I was dead against them for years, until the penny dropped it’s not the collar but how you use it, it’s not a sadistic tool, and with the right mindset they do work, I turned one dog around that I took on which was going to get a bullet after the 3rd ‘’expert’’ couldn’t sort out, he is now a joy to work with and have around, you as the owner need to have the right mindset with how to use one and they are great tools.

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My mate bought one for a GWP he had. It made him lazy in the end never really trained a dog after that because he would just stick the collar on a new pup! 

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On 07/10/2019 at 19:22, Wideboy said:

My mate bought one for a GWP he had. It made him lazy in the end never really trained a dog after that because he would just stick the collar on a new pup! 

Your mates a prick, that's not how they work.

 

The dog needs to be basically trained before using one, so it 100,000,000% knows the command so you can re-inforce it. The collar aint for training a dog. 

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13 hours ago, Lloyd90 said:

Your mates a prick, that's not how they work.

 

The dog needs to be basically trained before using one, so it 100,000,000% knows the command so you can re-inforce it. The collar aint for training a dog. 

Absolutely👍 should of said an ex mate haha, f****d me over with dogs.  

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I would say that the majority of people who are against the use of e-collars don't actually know how they work.

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As all ways the people who want things banned have never used one or no understanding. You give one them biscuit nibbling clicker waving plums some head strong dog that has developed a liking a for wool and see how far they get.

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