Another school shooting in America

[jiggy 3,207]

On 17/2/2018 at 11:56, bob.243 said:

They actually are banned I had to google that to believe it.

 

 

[jiggy 3,207]

On 17/2/2018 at 20:44, Lenmcharristar said:

jiggy the places were safer when the punishments were done by the paramilitaries on both sides, no pedos, house breakers and druggies, now its come full circle its usually them doing the crime these days fs.

What about Gerry Adams brother. They forgot to put a few in his knees.https://amp.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/liam-adams-brother-of-sinn-feins-gerry-adams-found-guilty-of-raping-his-daughter-29625476.html I'm a catholic myself by the way so there is no hidden agenda.

[ChrisJones 7,973]

4 hours ago, WILF said:

Make a race related joke within earshot of a policeman or deny a homosexual entry to your shop because you don’t really agree with homosexuality and we will see how much freedom you have mate.

But I will agree, it’s not worse than many places........but shit coated in sugar is still shit.

My point is, you can’t give them an inch......no matter how well intentioned.

They just can’t be trusted with it.

Perspective. Just because one doesn't have an issue with the situation doesn't mean their rights aren't being eroded. Again we get the government we deserve.

Again, I hear the cries I've just not heard a solution that would actually work.

[sandymere 8,261]

On 2/17/2018 at 11:34, Born Hunter said:

Only considering gun homocides is an intentional skew of the data! You said more guns is equal to more killing. You can’t draw that conclusion from your graph. Consider all homocides. Watch the video I posted.

More guns equal more gun killings which is the subject under discussion. Knives, vans etc are a different area and would give different results and need different actions. One thing to consider is how Germany manages to have lots of guns but relatively low gun crime?  Their answer very strict regulation.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_legislation_in_Germany

 

[ChrisJones 7,973]

5 minutes ago, sandymere said:

More guns equal more gun killings which is the subject under discussion. Knives, vans etc are a different area and would give different results and need different actions. One thing to consider is how Germany manages to have lots of guns but relatively low gun crime?  Their answer very strict regulation.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_legislation_in_Germany

 

If America repealed the second amendment tomorrow and made all guns illegal how do you propose to deal with the 300 million + guns already in circulation, bearing in mind that the vast majority of Americans support the constitution and vow to uphold it?

(Spoiler alert the Supreme Court has already ruled on several occasions that this isn't going to happen.)

Edited February 19, 2018 by ChrisJones

[Born Hunter 17,639]

6 minutes ago, sandymere said:

More guns equal more gun killings which is the subject under discussion. Knives, vans etc are a different area and would give different results and need different actions. One thing to consider is how Germany manages to have lots of guns but relatively low gun crime?  Their answer very strict regulation.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_legislation_in_Germany

 

You cannot determine that very simplistic conclusion from the graph you presented. That graph didn't measure total homicides or even total deaths. It just measured gun deaths. You have no idea how the death rate from other means has changed in relation to number of guns. Hence you cannot draw that conclusion. 

If gun regulation brought about a 100 deaths/yr reduction in gun homicides but at the same time caused a 200 deaths/yr increase in knife homocides you have taken a backward step, but according to you it  has saved lives.

It's a piss poor evaluation of the data.

Edited February 19, 2018 by Born Hunter

[sandymere 8,261]

But Chris why would they do that???

Wouldn't it be better for them to bring in controls like Germany which would gradually reduce numbers from those who are most likely to be a risk, those that have guns just as a habit and wouldn't bother to renew if it was a little more difficult etc etc and leave those that are reasonable safe and have a reason to have them..

[ChrisJones 7,973]

1 minute ago, Born Hunter said:

You cannot determine that very simplistic conclusion from the graph you presented. That graph didn't measure total homicides or even total deaths. It just measured gun deaths. You have no idea how the death rate from other means has changed in relation to number of guns. Hence you cannot draw that conclusion. 

It's impossible to compare crimes between the two countries because of the way the respective law enforcement bodies record criminal data. I refer the honourable gentlemen to the fact the countryside is more heavily armed than the urban areas yet the crime statistics are much lower in both countries.

Does anyone have a comment on the fact that 100% of these mass incidents have occurred in gun free zones?

[Born Hunter 17,639]

Just now, ChrisJones said:

It's impossible to compare crimes between the two countries because of the way the respective law enforcement bodies record criminal data. I refer the honourable gentlemen to the fact the countryside is more heavily armed than the urban areas yet the crime statistics are much lower in both countries.

Does anyone have a comment on the fact that 100% of these mass incidents have occurred in gun free zones?

We can't talk about that because the solution would be deemed to be pro-gun so of course is no considerable..... But it's us who are the bad guys for not accepting gun regulation.

[sandymere 8,261]

4 minutes ago, Born Hunter said:

You cannot determine that very simplistic conclusion from the graph you presented. That graph didn't measure total homicides or even total deaths. It just measured gun deaths. You have no idea how the death rate from other means has changed in relation to number of guns. Hence you cannot draw that conclusion. 

I wasn't trying to show anything other than gun deaths compared to guns because that is the issue I was showing, other causes of death are different issues and will need different approaches to management. 

To make a comparison re other causes I would again look at the German picture of regulation and attitudes/control of knives etc for results actions and further thought.

[ChrisJones 7,973]

2 minutes ago, sandymere said:

But Chris why would they do that???

Wouldn't it be better for them to bring in controls like Germany which would gradually reduce numbers from those who are most likely to be a risk, those that have guns just as a habit and wouldn't bother to renew if it was a little more difficult etc etc and leave those that are reasonable safe and have a reason to have them..

The democrats and various gun control bodies have proposed that and it has been continually rejected by the supreme court as unconstitutional. One of the biggest upsets in America in the last 20 years has been the ruling that denying concealed carry permits is also unconstitutional and as the time has passed more states are issuing them. Several don't have any requirements at all as the 2nd Amendment is all that is necessary in their eyes.

Homicides of all kinds are at a 40 year low.

How do you remove the guns in circulation?

[sandymere 8,261]

4 minutes ago, ChrisJones said:

It's impossible to compare crimes between the two countries because of the way the respective law enforcement bodies record criminal data. I refer the honourable gentlemen to the fact the countryside is more heavily armed than the urban areas yet the crime statistics are much lower in both countries.

Does anyone have a comment on the fact that 100% of these mass incidents have occurred in gun free zones?

Gun free zones are irrelevant as the surrounding areas are not gun free and there are no way to police the gun free zones are gun free, ie people walked in to the "gun free zones" carrying guns. It would seem to me that gun free zones a stupid in a free gun society.

An instinctive reaction is that there is more real need of guns in the countryside, game shooting, pest control etc, so more average people have guns; Mr Average isn't a mass shooter.

 

[ChrisJones 7,973]

4 minutes ago, Born Hunter said:

We can't talk about that because the solution would be deemed to be pro-gun so of course is no considerable..... But it's us who are the bad guys for not accepting gun regulation.

Someone commented earlier (I think it was Scot) that kids have the right to go to school without being shot. True although these things make international headlines they're still pretty rare occurrences despite the disproportionate amount of coverage they get. My kids' school has a resource officer. A sheriffs deputy who is posted at the school throughout the day. Most schools across the state do this. We rarely hear of gun control utopias like China where mass stabbings are on the rise.

As a rebuttal though do I not have the right to defend myself with equal force? If given the option would you fight back or cower and pray? I'm sure we can all agree that gun laws in both of our respective countries do not stop criminals using guns.

[scothunter 12,609]

For the record I'm only giving an opinion on a topic. I am not saying ban them. There never going to do that as I said earlier guns take preference over their kids well being.

Also the gun lobby have huge influence and money over the politicians and politics.

I just find it horrendous that these school shootings happen on a regular basis and f**k all is ever done. It would be constructive or even morally hopeful if the gun lobby or even a movement of gun owners went public and admitted they have a problem and enter into debate what they could do.

But no you get trump making it easier to let loonies get them. And publicly supported. f***ing madness and pretty selfish imo. 

Sad to say even if there another 10 school shootings by the end of the year nothing will change.bur anyway I will bow out now as like the other mass shootings it will soon be forgotten. Well not for the kids parents I imagine.

[Born Hunter 17,639]

8 minutes ago, sandymere said:

I wasn't trying to show anything other than gun deaths compared to guns because that is the issue I was showing, other causes of death are different issues and will need different approaches to management. 

To make a comparison re other causes I would again look at the German picture of regulation and attitudes/control of knives etc for results actions and further thought.

And how can you determine that they are unrelated and so different issues? You presented your argument for gun control with a simple and dangerously misleading dataset.

I don't know why Germany is so brilliant, enlighten me...