Whats Going On In London?

[Accip74 7,112]

Killer who was filmed in Regent's Park with an ISIS flag and tried to radicalise children with sweets was shopped to police TWICE as it emerges one of his fellow terrorists lived in DUBLINhttp://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4571902/London-Bridge-killer-slipped-police-s-net.html

The London Bridge killer wearing an Arsenal shirt slipped through the intelligence net despite being reported to the police at least twice for his extremism including trying to twist the minds of children, it was revealed today.

The security services face difficult questions because the 27-year-old Muslim ringleader, known to friends as 'Abz', even appeared in a TV documentary last year about British jihadists and unfurled an ISIS-style flag in Regent's Park.

He was also caught on camera alongside two notorious preachers who were well known to police and intelligence officials because of their extremist views.

A friend of the suspect had reported him to the anti-terror hotline after he became an extremist by watching videos on YouTube and police were also warned about the suspect radicalising children in a local park two years ago, giving them sweets and money to listen to him.

'Abz' also berated an Imam for encouraging worshippers to vote in the 2015 General Election and was banned from the mosque in the ensuing row.

A friend who called the anti-terror hotline said: 'I did my bit, I know other people did their bit but the authorities did not do their bit'.

The suspect, who the Mail has chosen not to name at the request of police, is understood to be one of three men who embarked on a stabbing rampage in London on Saturday night.

Gardai in Ireland have confirmed that an Irish ID card was found on the body of another of the killers - who is believed to have been born in Morocco but living in Dublin. Police say he was living in the Rathmines area of the Irish capital with his Scottish wife but he was not on their radar.

Scotland Yard says that it knows the identities of all the killers who murdered seven and injured 48 on London Bridge and inside Borough Market - but have asked the press not to name them.

Once again there was multiple opportunities to put a stop to this before anything happened, fecking shameful But of course the Police Federation were scaremongering when they told May this is what would happen if police numbers were cut.

I saw this last night, they were interviewing his mate that reported him. What more can you do?? Detain him yourself??

[Born Hunter 17,909]

Killer who was filmed in Regent's Park with an ISIS flag and tried to radicalise children with sweets was shopped to police TWICE as it emerges one of his fellow terrorists lived in DUBLIN

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4571902/London-Bridge-killer-slipped-police-s-net.html

 

The London Bridge killer wearing an Arsenal shirt slipped through the intelligence net despite being reported to the police at least twice for his extremism including trying to twist the minds of children, it was revealed today.

 

The security services face difficult questions because the 27-year-old Muslim ringleader, known to friends as 'Abz', even appeared in a TV documentary last year about British jihadists and unfurled an ISIS-style flag in Regent's Park.

 

He was also caught on camera alongside two notorious preachers who were well known to police and intelligence officials because of their extremist views.

 

A friend of the suspect had reported him to the anti-terror hotline after he became an extremist by watching videos on YouTube and police were also warned about the suspect radicalising children in a local park two years ago, giving them sweets and money to listen to him.

 

'Abz' also berated an Imam for encouraging worshippers to vote in the 2015 General Election and was banned from the mosque in the ensuing row.

 

A friend who called the anti-terror hotline said: 'I did my bit, I know other people did their bit but the authorities did not do their bit'.

 

The suspect, who the Mail has chosen not to name at the request of police, is understood to be one of three men who embarked on a stabbing rampage in London on Saturday night.

 

Gardai in Ireland have confirmed that an Irish ID card was found on the body of another of the killers - who is believed to have been born in Morocco but living in Dublin. Police say he was living in the Rathmines area of the Irish capital with his Scottish wife but he was not on their radar.

 

Scotland Yard says that it knows the identities of all the killers who murdered seven and injured 48 on London Bridge and inside Borough Market - but have asked the press not to name them.

Once again there was multiple opportunities to put a stop to this before anything happened, fecking shameful But of course the Police Federation were scaremongering when they told May this is what would happen if police numbers were cut.

 

 

I'm not sure so I'll ask, what actionable evidence were the police given or should they have gotten, bearing in mind our democratic and judicial principles?

 

So far I don't think having extremist views is criminal. As your man Corbyn has rightly reminded everyone.

 

What people need reminding of in all this is that there is a difference between intelligence and evidence.

[BGD 6,437]

Wernt the 7/7 bombings carried out under labours watch with the highest number of police ever? .. Just saying like

I must of missed the 7/7 bombers being caught on film with extremists flying ISIS flags and being reported to terrorism hotlines on multiple occasions?

[ChrisJones 7,975]

The yanks have had these advice leaflets out for a while. Granted it's for active shooter situations, but I'm sure that given the current climate that GCHQ could publish something similar?

 

I know this isn't a conversation that most want to be having but you don't have that luxury anymore. It's time to develop further skillsets.

[BGD 6,437]

 

I'm not sure so I'll ask, what actionable evidence were the police given or should they have gotten, bearing in mind our democratic and judicial principles?

 

So far I don't think having extremist views is criminal. As your man Corbyn has rightly reminded everyone.

 

What people need reminding of in all this is that there is a difference between intelligence and evidence.

The whole point is the reports to the authorities weren't followed up on properly due to lack of officers and any actionable evidence couldn't be gathered, maybe things would have been different if police numbers hadn't been cut? The police federation certainly think so.

[Accip74 7,112]

 

Killer who was filmed in Regent's Park with an ISIS flag and tried to radicalise children with sweets was shopped to police TWICE as it emerges one of his fellow terrorists lived in DUBLINhttp://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4571902/London-Bridge-killer-slipped-police-s-net.html

 

 

The London Bridge killer wearing an Arsenal shirt slipped through the intelligence net despite being reported to the police at least twice for his extremism including trying to twist the minds of children, it was revealed today.

The security services face difficult questions because the 27-year-old Muslim ringleader, known to friends as 'Abz', even appeared in a TV documentary last year about British jihadists and unfurled an ISIS-style flag in Regent's Park.

He was also caught on camera alongside two notorious preachers who were well known to police and intelligence officials because of their extremist views.

A friend of the suspect had reported him to the anti-terror hotline after he became an extremist by watching videos on YouTube and police were also warned about the suspect radicalising children in a local park two years ago, giving them sweets and money to listen to him.

'Abz' also berated an Imam for encouraging worshippers to vote in the 2015 General Election and was banned from the mosque in the ensuing row.

A friend who called the anti-terror hotline said: 'I did my bit, I know other people did their bit but the authorities did not do their bit'.

The suspect, who the Mail has chosen not to name at the request of police, is understood to be one of three men who embarked on a stabbing rampage in London on Saturday night.

Gardai in Ireland have confirmed that an Irish ID card was found on the body of another of the killers - who is believed to have been born in Morocco but living in Dublin. Police say he was living in the Rathmines area of the Irish capital with his Scottish wife but he was not on their radar.

Scotland Yard says that it knows the identities of all the killers who murdered seven and injured 48 on London Bridge and inside Borough Market - but have asked the press not to name them.

 

Once again there was multiple opportunities to put a stop to this before anything happened, fecking shameful But of course the Police Federation were scaremongering when they told May this is what would happen if police numbers were cut.

I'm not sure so I'll ask, what actionable evidence were the police given or should they have gotten, bearing in mind our democratic and judicial principles?

 

So far I don't think having extremist views is criminal. As your man Corbyn has rightly reminded everyone.

 

What people need reminding of in all this is that there is a difference between intelligence and evidence.

Genuine question born because interests me. We are told of numerous terror plots that have been infiltrated since 7/7 & many even this year. Do you think the authority's were always acting on solid evidence when they investigated? & do you think much information has come from within their own communities? Or do you think it's mostly 'online' infiltration?

[ChrisJones 7,975]

All of the above.

[Born Hunter 17,909]

 

 

Killer who was filmed in Regent's Park with an ISIS flag and tried to radicalise children with sweets was shopped to police TWICE as it emerges one of his fellow terrorists lived in DUBLINhttp://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4571902/London-Bridge-killer-slipped-police-s-net.html

 

The London Bridge killer wearing an Arsenal shirt slipped through the intelligence net despite being reported to the police at least twice for his extremism including trying to twist the minds of children, it was revealed today.

The security services face difficult questions because the 27-year-old Muslim ringleader, known to friends as 'Abz', even appeared in a TV documentary last year about British jihadists and unfurled an ISIS-style flag in Regent's Park.

He was also caught on camera alongside two notorious preachers who were well known to police and intelligence officials because of their extremist views.

A friend of the suspect had reported him to the anti-terror hotline after he became an extremist by watching videos on YouTube and police were also warned about the suspect radicalising children in a local park two years ago, giving them sweets and money to listen to him.

'Abz' also berated an Imam for encouraging worshippers to vote in the 2015 General Election and was banned from the mosque in the ensuing row.

A friend who called the anti-terror hotline said: 'I did my bit, I know other people did their bit but the authorities did not do their bit'.

The suspect, who the Mail has chosen not to name at the request of police, is understood to be one of three men who embarked on a stabbing rampage in London on Saturday night.

Gardai in Ireland have confirmed that an Irish ID card was found on the body of another of the killers - who is believed to have been born in Morocco but living in Dublin. Police say he was living in the Rathmines area of the Irish capital with his Scottish wife but he was not on their radar.

Scotland Yard says that it knows the identities of all the killers who murdered seven and injured 48 on London Bridge and inside Borough Market - but have asked the press not to name them.

Once again there was multiple opportunities to put a stop to this before anything happened, fecking shameful But of course the Police Federation were scaremongering when they told May this is what would happen if police numbers were cut.

I'm not sure so I'll ask, what actionable evidence were the police given or should they have gotten, bearing in mind our democratic and judicial principles?

 

So far I don't think having extremist views is criminal. As your man Corbyn has rightly reminded everyone.

 

What people need reminding of in all this is that there is a difference between intelligence and evidence.

Genuine question born because interests me. We are told of numerous terror plots that have been infiltrated since 7/7 & many even this year. Do you think the authority's were always acting on solid evidence when they investigated? & do you think much information has come from within their own communities? Or do you think it's mostly 'online' infiltration?

 

 

It's a mix imo. I skim read the Strategic Studies Institute's paper on counter terrorism tactics/strategies in liberal democracies the other week. It's interesting, lol.

 

The value of HUMINT (intelligence gathered from human sources, as opposed to signals/wiretaps etc) is stressed as extremely valuable, so yes, intelligence from the communities is very important. But I think it goes without saying that what GCHQ can do, in terms of intelligence, is of equal value.

 

As I have said before, there's a difference between intelligence and evidence. Investigations can be intelligence driven, but prosecutions/direct action have to be evidence driven. We live in a liberal democracy where citizens are supposed to have the freedom to believe what they want and are not subject to prosecution/persecution for extremist beliefs. Giving that principle up is a slippery slope which I'm not sure many quite fully grasp.

[Born Hunter 17,909]

 

 

I'm not sure so I'll ask, what actionable evidence were the police given or should they have gotten, bearing in mind our democratic and judicial principles?

 

So far I don't think having extremist views is criminal. As your man Corbyn has rightly reminded everyone.

 

What people need reminding of in all this is that there is a difference between intelligence and evidence.

The whole point is the reports to the authorities weren't followed up on properly due to lack of officers and any actionable evidence couldn't be gathered, maybe things would have been different if police numbers hadn't been cut? The police federation certainly think so.

 

 

I'm not sure we can draw that conclusion yet. Unless he clearly broke some law that I'm unaware of what could the police have done? Even if they were suffering from a lack of man power. Being reported puts him on the radar, it doesn't mean that the security services have all they need to stop him from committing a future offence.

Edited June 5, 2017 by Born Hunter

[BGD 6,437]

 

 

 

 

I'm not sure so I'll ask, what actionable evidence were the police given or should they have gotten, bearing in mind our democratic and judicial principles?

 

So far I don't think having extremist views is criminal. As your man Corbyn has rightly reminded everyone.

 

What people need reminding of in all this is that there is a difference between intelligence and evidence.

The whole point is the reports to the authorities weren't followed up on properly due to lack of officers and any actionable evidence couldn't be gathered, maybe things would have been different if police numbers hadn't been cut? The police federation certainly think so.

I'm not sure we can draw that conclusion yet. Unless he clearly broke some law that I'm unaware of what could the police have done? Even if they were suffering from a lack of man power. Being reported puts him on the radar, it doesn't mean that the security services have all they need to stop him from committing a future offence.

Obviously we can't sat anything definite about this particular case yet but when you've got the police saying it's impossible to investigate and keep proper tabs on the people reported to anti-terrorism hotlines due to lack of manpower and as a result there's a higher risk of more terrorist attacks I'll take them on their word, after all who knows better than the men and women actually on the ground dealing with these things day in day out? Edited June 5, 2017 by BGD

[Born Hunter 17,909]

 

 

Obviously we can't sat anything definite about this particular case yet but when you've got the police saying it's impossible to investigate and keep proper tabs on the people reported to anti-terrorism hotlines due to lack of manpower and as a result there's a higher risk of more terrorist attacks I'll take them on their word, after all who knows better than the men and women actually on the ground dealing with these things day in day out?

 

 

I agree, but on this specific case I haven't seen anything that shows it could have been stopped with that additional resource/man power yet.

[C556 351]

Bear in mind, cuts to the number of police officers were a result of the Home Office's budget being slashed by the Chancellor of the time.

[ChrisJones 7,975]

I agree, but on this specific case I haven't seen anything that shows it could have been stopped with that additional resource/man power yet.

Fair one, Born. What bothers me is that they're increasingly asking for more security, and more surveillance, powers. If they can't utilize what they already have, or aren't capable of monitoring credible threats at what point do we give up our liberty to the stage where there isn't any?

 

I can appreciate that funding has been cut and that frontline staff are struggling but some of the kneejerk reactions are very alarming for those of us that don't want to live in a police state.

[Born Hunter 17,909]

 

I agree, but on this specific case I haven't seen anything that shows it could have been stopped with that additional resource/man power yet.

Fair one, Born. What bothers me is that they're increasingly asking for more security, and more surveillance, powers. If they can't utilize what they already have, or aren't capable of monitoring credible threats at what point do we give up our liberty to the stage where there isn't any?

 

I can appreciate that funding has been cut and that frontline staff are struggling but some of the kneejerk reactions are very alarming for those of us that don't want to live in a police state.

 

 

I couldn't agree more, Chris. It's a fair point that the LibDem leader made in the debates that the Police and intelligence services shouldn't be given more power, they should be given more resource. So I am sympathetic with what BGD is saying but at the same time, these cuts aren't driven by a desire to see terrorism thrive, it's the need to eliminate the budget deficit!

 

And of course none of this is treating the cause.... The prevent part of CONTEST needs a rethink!

 

All that said, if things don't shape the f**k up sharpish, some very bold measures that fly in the face of liberty are going to be needed.

Edited June 5, 2017 by Born Hunter

[BGD 6,437]

Bear in mind, cuts to the number of police officers were a result of the Home Office's budget being slashed by the Chancellor of the time.

And May backed the cuts and accused police officers of scaremongering and crying wolf when they warned her there would be consequences.