Creating A New Line Of Working Terrier?

[Zilverhaze 1,627]

You think jagds are curs Neil ? Can u explain what u mean by that please mate ? not bein disrespectful just I've seen them go as good as any black dog and seen enough go to form a opinion of them my opinion is there good and bad ones for digging,, ones for on top depending were you go not as reliable as are black dogs and the percentage of good digging ones won't be as high as are black dogs but I whuld say ther in a better state than the border , Russel and Lakeland for digging

[tinytiger 822]

Maybe If plumber was a out and out digging man he whuld of created digging dogs by natural selection of breeding the best to best but he was a ratting man and dident do much digging and there's still plumbers out ther what are good for digging ? I think it's something what chuld be done and if some one was wanting to gamble a good 10-15 -20 years of ther life into the venture then good luck to em it whuld be exiting and interesting times

they were still about into 2000s-plummers you could dig-probably been selected against since(purposely or not)

[Lenmcharristar 9,180]

For an example, I owned a bull Russell bitch before she was mental hard bitch, and I've dug over a border patt enough to know he was top of his game and dug over his parents enough to see why they were mated, now if I still had that bitch and access to the border patt dog I'd bred them in a heart beat as both were real good earth dogs, now they were just cross breeds but have been bred for the right reasons because of their abilities of work. But they'd just be bitsas so out of resulting pups it doesn't ave to stop there as work would be the main reason for breeding.

[foxbolter 447]

you would probably do yourself a favour if you stopped using the name plummer

[jiggy 3,207]

Wasn't the smithy dog half Lakeland I thought I read that somewhere and a large percentage of today's black dogs have his blood in them so yes you could create a line from different breeds if the right working parents are used. As for size and dogs been too big wasn't smithy also 17 inches to the shoulder and it didn't stop him been the legend he became if you could believe the stories or possibly fables written about him. You could breed white,red or black dogs with each other and have a ruthless selection process for pups and after a couple of generations breeding back into itself the blood would tighten up and a line start to form if you have 2 or 3 decades to spare. You also need luck on your side because if you fail you could spend another 20 year trying to correct it and will be most likely dead before anyone will give you any appreciation for it. Like all good things men do it takes 2 generations to create it then only 1 to ruin it.

Edited February 21, 2017 by jiggy

[Lusitano 294]

Interesting topic... personally I don't see a problem with someone breeding crossbred worker to crossbred worker it's what dogmen have done for centuries. You could create your own type but as already said it would take many many years to do so. But why try to re invent the wheel, why not try to bring back the working qualities of the bedlington, lakey, border and the many other breeds we have already that have gone to sh!t creek. Sorry to burst anyone's bubble but our Terriers are not as "pure" as some would like to think...

[Lenmcharristar 9,180]

you would probably do yourself a favour if you stopped using the name plummer

your jumping on a name too , it was just an example, with us when young we used local dogs, I've seen dogs from litters that looked like a small leg smooth Russell but grizzle in colour feck knows what was in him but he was just a good worker from working parents, lines didn't matter, work mattered.

[jiggy 3,207]

Most digging dogs are already a mixture of breeds they throw black because it's a dominant colour. A lot of lads like to cover up the fact that there is border,Russel and Lakey blood only a couple of generations back in their lines.

[Dead Eyes 680]

 

 

 

Every terrier I have in the yard has been part of a line of terriers but none are of a direct line. Each terriers parents are off different lines. I'm doing alright for myself, maybe I'm just lucky or maybe I'm getting the best of both worlds. Edited to add not one of my terriers are related in any way at all.

that's the type, just workers to workers, do you breed your own now general? and have you any pups off them that worked

No I don't breed as I only have dogs. It's been 8 years from I had a bitch in the yard and I lost her to ground. Not to say I wouldn't take another bitch in the future though. All my dogs have been gifted to me by friends, digging partners or just genuine terriermen that asked would I like a pup from there litter. They're all bred from good dogs and bitches but each dog has completely different lines in the sire and dam side and none the same line in any of the other dogs. None of them are similar in working style but they get the job done for me and they keep me happy. As I say maybe I'm just lucky that these different breedings have clicked, whether they'd be producers if bred from time might tell if I find the right bitch or someone with the right bitch approaches me. I do believe line breeding is definately a way to get a higher percentage of workers but the thing about it is you could have a genuine guy line breeding good stock but assholes that don't know how to rear, look after and run a terrier on properly ending up with the pups so that could fk it up on the man. Then you can get genuine lads breeding dogs that they have with a good network of lads that they know will do there best to rear the offspring to the best of there ability and strive to try and get the best out of the dogs. That's the main factor in my eyes. I'm just thankful the majority of pups I receive work out for me.

Big assumption, but I assume that you're asking because you'd like something outta your own?

 

If you find a good bitch then you can put all of your terriers into her at various stages, even do dual litters, and you have the makings of a line

 

Obviously people choose to linebreed, but a line is to preserve traits. If, say a Russel you have is a mixer/bayer and a Lakeland you have is the same, then you ARE breeding a preserving traits

 

I very much like foxdroppers theory's of breeding a very hard dog with a Bayer type bitch to create a middle of the road type too

 

Breed what you like, only yourself has to feed them

[Glyn..... 5,199]

how i look at it new lines breeds come about in the working sense because there isn't a type line strain breed that fills that purpose for example pig hunting dogs in Australia they cross nose with guts with stamina get the bull Arab and all the other lines which are better suited to the area they hunt , in Europe the terrier type was set and mainly in the Uk slight differences for areas, until about 50-60 years ago then the influence of the fell terrier came in to play and influenced most lines of workers not many russells in the uk without fell blood , the plummer with dashes of bull and beagle a mix of old school white hunt terrier and the breay/buck line .... there wont be another type produced in britain well not a worker anyway the laws against it if you can't get your hands on already line bred workers , then line bred your worker to workers but no one in britain going to produce a new breed of working terrier

[neil cooney 10,415]

Most digging dogs are already a mixture of breeds they throw black because it's a dominant colour. A lot of lads like to cover up the fact that there is border,Russel and Lakey blood only a couple of generations back in their lines.

Nonsense, yes all types have other blood in their ancestory. Nobody's denying that.

But to suggest that there's Border and Russell only a COUPLE of generations back in Fell lines is bullshit.

 

I've had my line for around 8 generations and my friend who's had the line longer has had them a few generations before that.

I know the couple of outcrosses I used inside out so my question is ?

Did someone sneak in to my yard in the last few years with their Russell or Border stud and let it mate my bitches ??????????????

 

Lads who always come out with the remark that there's no one with terriers that have been the same type to the same type for generation after generation are always those who are jealous of those who have something to be proud off.

[THE GENERAL 1,975]

 

 

 

 

Every terrier I have in the yard has been part of a line of terriers but none are of a direct line. Each terriers parents are off different lines. I'm doing alright for myself, maybe I'm just lucky or maybe I'm getting the best of both worlds. Edited to add not one of my terriers are related in any way at all.

that's the type, just workers to workers, do you breed your own now general? and have you any pups off them that worked

No I don't breed as I only have dogs. It's been 8 years from I had a bitch in the yard and I lost her to ground. Not to say I wouldn't take another bitch in the future though. All my dogs have been gifted to me by friends, digging partners or just genuine terriermen that asked would I like a pup from there litter. They're all bred from good dogs and bitches but each dog has completely different lines in the sire and dam side and none the same line in any of the other dogs. None of them are similar in working style but they get the job done for me and they keep me happy. As I say maybe I'm just lucky that these different breedings have clicked, whether they'd be producers if bred from time might tell if I find the right bitch or someone with the right bitch approaches me. I do believe line breeding is definately a way to get a higher percentage of workers but the thing about it is you could have a genuine guy line breeding good stock but assholes that don't know how to rear, look after and run a terrier on properly ending up with the pups so that could fk it up on the man. Then you can get genuine lads breeding dogs that they have with a good network of lads that they know will do there best to rear the offspring to the best of there ability and strive to try and get the best out of the dogs. That's the main factor in my eyes. I'm just thankful the majority of pups I receive work out for me.

Big assumption, but I assume that you're asking because you'd like something outta your own?

 

If you find a good bitch then you can put all of your terriers into her at various stages, even do dual litters, and you have the makings of a line

 

Obviously people choose to linebreed, but a line is to preserve traits. If, say a Russel you have is a mixer/bayer and a Lakeland you have is the same, then you ARE breeding a preserving traits

 

I very much like foxdroppers theory's of breeding a very hard dog with a Bayer type bitch to create a middle of the road type too

 

Breed what you like, only yourself has to feed them

I never asked for anything.

I stated that I was happy with what I have and if somewhere along the line I'm asked to use a dog over a decent bitch I will or if a good bitch pops up that suits then I'll sort it out myself.

What's a big assumption?

[Dead Eyes 680]

GENERAL

 

My fault entirely. I thought you was the thread starter - hence my big assumption that you're asking because you want to breed yours ??

[jiggy 3,207]

 

 

Most digging dogs are already a mixture of breeds they throw black because it's a dominant colour. A lot of lads like to cover up the fact that there is border,Russel and Lakey blood only a couple of generations back in their lines.

Nonsense, yes all types have other blood in their ancestory. Nobody's denying that.

But to suggest that there's Border and Russell only a COUPLE of generations back in Fell lines is bullshit.

 

I've had my line for around 8 generations and my friend who's had the line longer has had them a few generations before that.

I know the couple of outcrosses I used inside out so my question is ?

Did someone sneak in to my yard in the last few years with their Russell or Border stud and let it mate my bitches ??????????????

 

Lads who always come out with the remark that there's no one with terriers that have been the same type to the same type for generation after generation are always those who are jealous of those who have something to be proud off.

I never said your line or all lines had other blood in them and if you are in your mid 40,s and have your own line 8 generations then what age were you when you started that line 5 years old or were you breeding out of pups.

[Lenmcharristar 9,180]

So if ya just worker to worker breed no matter the type then your destined for failure? I'm not knocking anybody or any bodies dogs,, surely the work should come 1st?