Creating A New Line Of Working Terrier?

[Lenmcharristar 9,180]

I think we are missing the point here the man is talking about a new line not how to contain an existing line which shouldn't need changing if it's doing what it is meant to be doing. Lads that had white dogs infused Bull into them then many generations later of breeding back into itself good working lines were created. Similar to lads that put Bull into patterdales then bred back in so lines were formed from 2 different types it's nothing new the success rate will not be as high as established lines but with a ruthless approach it can be achieved in time. How many men in the past fcuked up their own lines because they were too proud to look outside their own yard when better dogs were available. An infusion of new blood is not always a bad thing.

bang on jiggy, the lines people are working today had to start some where

[dillydog 8,417]

We're all just polishing turds, every line that exists now existed in one form or another before we were even thought of.

The so called Stevens line, is a mix up of some Nuttall, some Gould and some Park blood. Nothing new in any of it, it's just a family of dogs that have been bred tight from a nucleus of good working genes.

As conceited as he is he never set out to create a line of dogs, no one but Plummer would dare to consider such a bold statement. We've only got one lifetime, I don't know about you boys but it's hard enough keeping what we've already got going in the right way without reinventing the wheel

[pablo esc 1,598]

All being well , the is good teriermen out there now who have nothing to do with the above names who are working , breeding for themselves and the can nearly call them the own after a few generations now and the know what the getting with the own dogs through breeding with the own family of dogs through well proven dogs and lines for themselves.

[RTurlough 160]

All DNA has a lifespan. Breeding by breeding the DNA strands weaken. This weakening of the DNA is representative through genetic traits such as Cherry Eye (beagles), over/under shot jaws, seizures due to brain size in a small cranium etc. Outbreeding is a good thing. In a perfect world we could run a pure line forever but scientifically this has consequences and a deterioration of the line....eventually.

 

Throughout history other men have had a chance to create their breeds, the ones which we have today. Should we not have the right in our generation to create our own breed?

 

Any attempt will always be subject to criticism and in every breed there are dogs that work and dogs that fail.

 

We should safeguard our own lines and protect them from being diluted with muck. But I look forward to the new Lurcher, Terrier or Hound, makes my mundane life more interesting. We only have one life and it is short as frig!

Edited February 22, 2017 by RTurlough

[Lenmcharristar 9,180]

All DNA has a lifespan. Breeding by breeding the DNA strands weaken. This weakening of the DNA is representative through genetic traits such as Cherry Eye (beagles), over/under shot jaws, seizures due to brain size in a small cranium etc. Outbreeding is a good thing. In a perfect world we could run a pure line forever but scientifically this has consequences and a deterioration of the line....eventually.

 

Throughout history other men have had a chance to create their breeds, the ones which we have today. Should we not have the right in our generation to create our own breed?

 

Any attempt will always be subject to criticism and in every breed there are dogs that work and dogs that fail.

 

We should safeguard our own lines and protect them from being diluted with muck. But I look forward to the new Lurcher, Terrier or Hound, makes my mundane life more interesting. We only have one life and it is short as frig!

very good points mate. its a thread for differing opinions and to see if any body is doing their own stuff n ways, but in a way they are with the different lines going. but I defo agree with the above post about creating new ones

[neil cooney 10,415]

All DNA has a lifespan. Breeding by breeding the DNA strands weaken. This weakening of the DNA is representative through genetic traits such as Cherry Eye (beagles), over/under shot jaws, seizures due to brain size in a small cranium etc. Outbreeding is a good thing. In a perfect world we could run a pure line forever but scientifically this has consequences and a deterioration of the line....eventually.

 

Throughout history other men have had a chance to create their breeds, the ones which we have today. Should we not have the right in our generation to create our own breed?

 

Any attempt will always be subject to criticism and in every breed there are dogs that work and dogs that fail.

 

We should safeguard our own lines and protect them from being diluted with muck. But I look forward to the new Lurcher, Terrier or Hound, makes my mundane life more interesting. We only have one life and it is short as frig!

Jmho but the types we work today evolved at a time when hunting as we know it was also evolving and practical hunters bred what they felt was needed for their hunting country and different quarry species.

Yes, there were different types evolving into todays breeds / types but the reason for that was because back then a hunter could only use what he knew of and was practically available. He wouldn't have know back then that someone 100 miles up the road also had excellent terriers.

BUT, in this day and age IMO if someone wants to start something new for no other reason than starting something new then it's obvious what their intentions are.

Take Plummer for example. He created a type for ratting. Was there no good rattin' types out there ?

In several of his writings he decried those who turned working breeds into K.C. monstrosities.

YET, he moaned when the Plummer club voted against K.C. recognition . So what were his intentions ?

 

Keeping a line going can be hard work, stressful and you blame yourself when things go wrong.

But it is IMO the best way in this tough game of getting workers.

 

Maybe I'm wrong in that last sentence.

Maybe the best way to get good workers is to have friend who has a good line of workers, LOL.

[dillydog 8,417]

A line can't exist in one man's yard Neil, again it's only my opinion but within a few years you'd box yourself in genetically and you'd have no more options should thing go pear shaped.

That's the benefit of knowing a few good yards of the same family of terriers, we can't be omnipresent and dig to all dogs, in all places. I know I struggle to find the work for mine from time to time, so I keep a small yard going. I know plenty of other yards with the same, or similar blood so I always have options available and we can swap pups or mating along the way.

[neil cooney 10,415]

That's true Dillydog.

Friends in this game are like terriers.

You're better of with a half a dozen good ones than a dozen bad ones.

[Plucky1 1,119]

Neil, having met Plummer and spoken to him myself he was a egotistical maniac only interested in fame and money, conceited and he was always right, we laughed when he said he was after calling a dog after himself thinking he was being rather bigheaded and a dreamer, for someone that had never really done anything in the way of hunting he relied too heavily on others to test his dogs, he was only interested in fame and talk shows,films,etc, he was always seen as a crank and even attending terrier shows he would cause controversy with his outrageous comments and boasts, Plummers are only a type of Russell in my book and the way they work is just the same but their noses are exceptional, especially on the run trailing anything, if they had been called the "Modern Terrier"or "Northern Terrier" like most wanted they may of been accepted by more working lads, fully tested and been all the better for it, WM

[MOLE265 792]

Neil, having met Plummer and spoken to him myself he was a egotistical maniac only interested in fame and money, conceited and he was always right, we laughed when he said he was after calling a dog after himself thinking he was being rather bigheaded and a dreamer, for someone that had never really done anything in the way of hunting he relied too heavily on others to test his dogs, he was only interested in fame and talk shows,films,etc, he was always seen as a crank and even attending terrier shows he would cause controversy with his outrageous comments and boasts, Plummers are only a type of Russell in my book and the way they work is just the same but their noses are exceptional, especially on the run trailing anything, if they had been called the "Modern Terrier"or "Northern Terrier" like most wanted they may of been accepted by more working lads, fully tested and been all the better for it, WM

.

[Lenmcharristar 9,180]

Neil, having met Plummer and spoken to him myself he was a egotistical maniac only interested in fame and money, conceited and he was always right, we laughed when he said he was after calling a dog after himself thinking he was being rather bigheaded and a dreamer, for someone that had never really done anything in the way of hunting he relied too heavily on others to test his dogs, he was only interested in fame and talk shows,films,etc, he was always seen as a crank and even attending terrier shows he would cause controversy with his outrageous comments and boasts, Plummers are only a type of Russell in my book and the way they work is just the same but their noses are exceptional, especially on the run trailing anything, if they had been called the "Modern Terrier"or "Northern Terrier" like most wanted they may of been accepted by more working lads, fully tested and been all the better for it, WM

why don't you do that with the plummers you have that's like the russels

[Plucky1 1,119]

 

Neil, having met Plummer and spoken to him myself he was a egotistical maniac only interested in fame and money, conceited and he was always right, we laughed when he said he was after calling a dog after himself thinking he was being rather bigheaded and a dreamer, for someone that had never really done anything in the way of hunting he relied too heavily on others to test his dogs, he was only interested in fame and talk shows,films,etc, he was always seen as a crank and even attending terrier shows he would cause controversy with his outrageous comments and boasts, Plummers are only a type of Russell in my book and the way they work is just the same but their noses are exceptional, especially on the run trailing anything, if they had been called the "Modern Terrier"or "Northern Terrier" like most wanted they may of been accepted by more working lads, fully tested and been all the better for it, WM

 

 

So if they work like a russel but noses are exceptional, are you say russels have shit noses?

 

No, I have owned a few with decent noses but the Plummer being bred through the beagle certainly has better scenting ability on a live hot trail, WM

[Plucky1 1,119]

 

Neil, having met Plummer and spoken to him myself he was a egotistical maniac only interested in fame and money, conceited and he was always right, we laughed when he said he was after calling a dog after himself thinking he was being rather bigheaded and a dreamer, for someone that had never really done anything in the way of hunting he relied too heavily on others to test his dogs, he was only interested in fame and talk shows,films,etc, he was always seen as a crank and even attending terrier shows he would cause controversy with his outrageous comments and boasts, Plummers are only a type of Russell in my book and the way they work is just the same but their noses are exceptional, especially on the run trailing anything, if they had been called the "Modern Terrier"or "Northern Terrier" like most wanted they may of been accepted by more working lads, fully tested and been all the better for it, WM

why don't you do that with the plummers you have that's like the russels

 

How do you mean len, there are already Russells as a known breed and Plummers carry bull/patterdale/beagle in their parentage, I used to breed a line of these for a good many years and they were like peas in a pod, all good earth dogs, WM

 

 

[THE GENERAL 1,975]

That's true Dillydog.

Friends in this game are like terriers.

You're better of with a half a dozen good ones than a dozen bad ones.

Good shout Neil.

I've never put down line bred dogs. Not everyone has that quest to drive for and the ones like yourself that do and many others, I have respect for. The point that I was making was the lads that don't have many trustworthy contacts or a close network of friends, will find it difficult to line breed. So breeding worker to worker between themselves..Breeding the best black/fell types up and down the country from dogs/bitches they've seen work week in and out. They seem to be doing alright for themselves! But hey, they're only scatter breds as some would call it. Why? Because they're not off a certain line? but the dam and sire are off certain lines, but completely different. Doesn't mean it doesnt click. When it does, well and good. If the men have the time, space, network of solid lads they can trust on to run the young dogs on knowing it's the produce of what they've been digging over for a few seasons there's a good chance of results. It ain't rocket science. Long may it last.

Edited February 22, 2017 by THE GENERAL

[MOLE265 792]

 

 

 

 

Neil, having met Plummer and spoken to him myself he was a egotistical maniac only interested in fame and money, conceited and he was always right, we laughed when he said he was after calling a dog after himself thinking he was being rather bigheaded and a dreamer, for someone that had never really done anything in the way of hunting he relied too heavily on others to test his dogs, he was only interested in fame and talk shows,films,etc, he was always seen as a crank and even attending terrier shows he would cause controversy with his outrageous comments and boasts, Plummers are only a type of Russell in my book and the way they work is just the same but their noses are exceptional, especially on the run trailing anything, if they had been called the "Modern Terrier"or "Northern Terrier" like most wanted they may of been accepted by more working lads, fully tested and been all the better for it, WM

why don't you do that with the plummers you have that's like the russels

How do you mean len, there are already Russells as a known breed and Plummers carry bull/patterdale/beagle in their parentage, I used to breed a line of these for a good many years and they were like peas in a pod, all good earth dogs, WM

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Much were they a pup!!!