How Early

[MIK 4,754]

At a rough estimate it will be about 30 acres where the chickens are kept with 2 sheds .....the front entrance is fenced with deer fencing and the sides and back fence is stock fence with an electric top wire on both sides more to keep cattle out ..... we have a problem with cubs every year as this is also an arable farm so late summer cubs move into the rape but they are usually easily dealt with ...you get foxes coming in at night once the hens are back in the sheds for the night and there is 4 gates they can get through so i know their escape routes so they are usually had quite easily ....last year i had a fox that i would see with the lamp then she would disapear and i couldnt figure out where it went it wasnt until I got the thermal NV that I saw her run and jump on a strainer post and over the fence which was quite a challenge with high power electric wire on both sides

[foxdropper 17,092]

So are we agreed that in different areas foxes behave different.I stand by what I've said that IVE never seen a dog fox around an earth nor any interaction that would lead me to believe otherwise.There seem to be some people that are short sighted on the whole procedure of fox control.Keep at them and the numbers dwindle ,you only kill them once .The vacuum created by removal only late for as long as you let it .I too do an organic farm and when I first started the fox numbers were artificially sustained by bad husbandry .Dead stock left out and chickens not shut in at appropriate times .We lamped ,dug and lurchered 119 in the first year ,127 in the second and a staggering 236 in the third tailing off to 63 then 38 .Now a days I only lamp or snare when the farmer has a problem .If a fox is seen amongst lambs you try telling a farmer he's best left lol.I was at a place last evening when the farmers daughter said earlier she came upon a small fox struggling with a half grown lamb ,still alive broad daylight .We had to pts as it was in a bad way but the carcass will be bait for a night vigil .What I will concede is that the fact we are very much pro control here would impact on the way a litter is reared .

[neil cooney 10,415]

I can never get my head around that theory that if you kill a fox another will just take it's place.

So these foxes that move in, do they appear from mid air ? Is there a big supply of spare foxes somewhere and when one dies another comes out of this big hoard of foxes and replaces the dead one ?

Don't be silly.

Just think about it for a couple of minutes, it's common sense.

When you take out a fox it just means the other local foxes now have it's territory and food supply to share.

Plenty of foxes = plenty of predation.

Less foxes = less predation.

It's not rocket science.

Foxes are opportunists and will ALWAYS take the easiest option. In a field of 1000 rabbits and 1 newborn lamb then it's the lamb who's mostly in trouble.

When the easy options are not there a fox will take the next option until the only options are the ones where he has to take a risk ie. enter a yard or a pen.

I've recently trapped a lot of grey crows near my poultry pens and after removing the wings I just threw the bodies over the hedge and they were always gone the next morning.

I haven't trapped a grey crow now for 4 days and straight away I see sign where the fox has been trying to get into my pens.

Partially my fault for feeding the fox but it now has to be nipped in the bud before I loose fowl. If I trap or snare a vixen I then have a litter to find and dispatch.

There's too much theory and romanticism regarding the fox. The truth is they're an opportunist predator who's also a brilliant survivor. That's the fact.

[Mary 352]

I can never get my head around that theory that if you kill a fox another will just take it's place.

So these foxes that move in, do they appear from mid air ? Is there a big supply of spare foxes somewhere and when one dies another comes out of this big hoard of foxes and replaces the dead one ?

Don't be silly.

Just think about it for a couple of minutes, it's common sense.

When you take out a fox it just means the other local foxes now have it's territory and food supply to share.

Plenty of foxes = plenty of predation.

Less foxes = less predation.

It's not rocket science.

Foxes are opportunists and will ALWAYS take the easiest option. In a field of 1000 rabbits and 1 newborn lamb then it's the lamb who's mostly in trouble.

When the easy options are not there a fox will take the next option until the only options are the ones where he has to take a risk ie. enter a yard or a pen.

I've recently trapped a lot of grey crows near my poultry pens and after removing the wings I just threw the bodies over the hedge and they were always gone the next morning.

I haven't trapped a grey crow now for 4 days and straight away I see sign where the fox has been trying to get into my pens.

Partially my fault for feeding the fox but it now has to be nipped in the bud before I loose fowl. If I trap or snare a vixen I then have a litter to find and dispatch.

There's too much theory and romanticism regarding the fox. The truth is they're an opportunist predator who's also a brilliant survivor. That's the fact.

Neil, why do remove the wings? Is it same reason as fox tail?

[neil cooney 10,415]

I'm the vermin officer for the local Gun Club and I hand in our vermin each year which results in a few extra pounds for the GC, plus it's a free service the club provides for farmers.

[foxbolter 447]

I bet the local hunt love you. Would you love them if they shot all your game birds in our area hunts provide the service for the farmer collecting dead stock at a cheap rate to hunt the land

[neil cooney 10,415]

Foxbolter, if anyone else asked that question I'd give a proper answer but not you. You're a fool who has no clue.

Cue the name calling.

 

And I know all the local Huntsmen and get on very well with all of them.

[Born Hunter 17,638]

I've got to say lads, this is a truly fascinating and insightful thread! It really demonstrates how in touch and knowledgeable countrymen are with their quarry. I was particularly intrigued by this theory that a dominant vixen will keep others out of heat and allow them to kick about until next spring, which fits perfectly with my experience.

 

I find that where keepers are understanding of the hunts, the hunts are perfectly understanding of the keepers! This hatred between hunting folk and shooting folk only exists when one or both are ignorant and selfish towards the other.

 

Cracking thread for the most part.

[foxbolter 447]

I bet you are one of those little pricks that everyone in the area hates cause you kill all the cubs and go back to the shoot and brag about what you have killed .then rob them lol remember that bit you wrote on this thread of hunting farmer didn't want you poking your nose in digging cubs I bet your hated where you live.

[Crosshair 77]

What you forget FB is that in lowland England, hunting with dogs is banned to all intents and purposes. Our hunt has such a massive country now that they only hunt here once a season anyway.

My boss doesn't want to save foxes for an illegal hunt once a year and why should he??

Its not like the hunt are going to fork out £40 a bird for every predated pheasant or partridge.

 

I kill every litter I find and on the one visit a year, the hunt always find anyway (during the course of trail hunting you understand ) so your logic doesn't even stand up to scrutiny.

 

I happen to have a great relationship with our master and in fact he brings me a horse to ride up front with the huntsman if I want one.

 

So perhaps your bigoted stirring is a little ill-founded??

[foxdropper 17,092]

Lol .You seem to be on here for one reason only FB and thats to talk shit about people you know f**k all about .So what if cubs are killed anywhere as long as its not your permo ,who are you to complain .Makes me laugh when lads come on kicking off about whatever when it dosnt affect them at all .I know your sort FB ,the sort who thinks foxes belong to the hunt or yourself as hunt representative ,we have them here and i go out my way to wind the fuckers up .I dig and shoot on most of the local hunt country by invite because farmers still have a living to make long after shiney buttons are hung up and fences mended .I was once written to by our local huntsman ,politely i must add ,asking if i would refrain from shooting foxes in a particular area .I showed the letter to a few landowners and all agreed it was control first and foremost they wanted .I wrote back saying when did ones mans sport come before anothers livelyhood ,I never got a reply .This topic, apart from a small section of shit input has taught me that foxes definately behave different in other areas around the country ,something i wasnt aware of so cheers lads.Crosshairs analogy is very much the South of England way ,foxes are numerous and year round control is the norm wherever farming ,shooting interests dictate .

[MIK 4,754]

I was over on Athol estates on Monday the 18th April micro chipping a few of the keepers dogs all the keepers are hard at it waiting out at night and checking dens this time of year one of the lads had had a litter 2 days before ....now these cubs must of been a very early litter ....up this way the hill lads do not check dens until the 15th of April for 2 reasons that is when the heather burning stops and by that time you can near guarantee that most vixens will of dropped by then ....im not a fan of pics of cubs but these cubs must be around the 2 month mark which would of made them born mid Feb which is very very early on the low ground never mind the hill ...also the dog was in with them I have not spoken to him since then but have sent him a message as im in Vietnam to see if they got the vixen

[foxbolter 447]

There's a cat amongst the pigeons lol fox dropper you have really shown your unintelligent regarding the fox on this thread find it hard you like shooting a animal you have little knowledge of. crosshair I realise hunting is band and pheasant cost 40 a bird are you glad hunting is band because it really sounds like. Do gamekeepers realise birds of prey take pheasant and it's band to shoot them also don't insult my intelligence lovely boy

[Crosshair 77]

You ought to come to my part of the world. There is no room for illegal persecution of BoP. Too many people. We lose in total to Buzzards in one season what a fox can kill in one night so there isn't even good grounds to want to break the law.

 

 

I'm certainly not glad hunting is banned. My wife loves hunting. I had my own horse for a few years, hunted with lots of packs locally and we took our horses hunting with the Exmoor Foxhounds for the first leg of our honeymoon so less of the ignorant tar brushing hey?? You literally haven't got a clue about people.

[neil cooney 10,415]

I've got to say lads, this is a truly fascinating and insightful thread! It really demonstrates how in touch and knowledgeable countrymen are with their quarry. I was particularly intrigued by this theory that a dominant vixen will keep others out of heat and allow them to kick about until next spring, which fits perfectly with my experience.

 

I find that where keepers are understanding of the hunts, the hunts are perfectly understanding of the keepers! This hatred between hunting folk and shooting folk only exists when one or both are ignorant and selfish towards the other.

 

Cracking thread for the most part.

I wont even reply to that other idiot.

I've done a lot of hunt terrier work Born Hunter and any Huntsman will tell you that one good fox is better than several bad ones. Very very rare for a pack to blank in a days hunting.

I popped into a neighbour today to say hello (and drink a few glasses of Brandy) and when I got home there a while ago I checked my phone and had a miss-call.

On my voicemail was a message from an old woman out the road, out of breath, shouting down the phone to me that the fox was after been in her yard, killed a few hens and was now crossing the garden with a hen in it's mouth. That was around 4 pm.

What's the solution ?

If I was to take that other idiots advice I should go out tomorrow morning and educate that woman and explain to her that I'll wait 'til the cubs are adults and the weather is cold and then I'll sort her problem for her.

Maybe I should compensate her for her loss, just like the Masters did a hundred years ago ?

Or maybe I should do what those of us who know how the countryside works and just get on with the job.