Hard Dogs How Many.

[fat man 4,740]

 

I think everyone has a different opinion on what is called a hard terrier.Some will call a terrier that can kill fox to ground on a regular basis hard where others will say the dog just has a nack for killing them.Some terriers are hard on themselves[stupid] where as another can be pure mute go in take hold and just lay there until dug to and without taking any or little grief.I know of 1 dog which is 11 year old now and was dug to 13 times last season in 3 weeks,this dog is mute but sensible in the process,will take hold and happy to just lay there until dug.I have a niece to this dog and she will try and go through them but pays the price for it,have 2 daughters to this bitch back to said dog and they casn be dug to regularly but my mate has a litter brother to these and he is a lunatic,steams into them like a train.I prefer a hardish type terrier,not into yappers but every man to his own.We rotate our terriers from week to week so none of them are worked sore and all allowed to heal but they see plenty of work.

and off a good dig and how long to ground does one of these hard dog take to heal? .

 

Sometimes they can be dug to same day as i said some are happy to lie there just holding on,others can be to ground for less than an hour and not be dug to for a couple of weeks,as said none of our dogs are worked sore or raw and are treated as best we can after a difficult dig.Question for you now Pablo,what would you define as a good dig,in my eyes everytime you enter a terrier to ground and dig it sucsessfully with its game its a good dig no matter how deep or how long its been to ground.

[fat man 4,740]

For the dog side of it, It give it best , it find firstly and do the time, and not show away or come off when its done that. One hole dig but i couldn't say that is always going to happen but if have dozens of it, then at least the other is the one off or so. i like the hard dog and no scream, but The have a bark,which i at least no whats going on. Some burys and the experienced game though knowtto keep the dog their and have moved, or such. You should get me a dog so i see somesteam , in some of the places, and not to much difficulty can face, which can. Be failure in some places, but no complain it goes with the territory's,

Terrier has got to be able to find or you get no dig,nose very important in a working terrier.Like yourself i dont like opening holes all over so a 1 hole terrier is by far my choice so they have to stay and face there quarry in order to do so.Experienced game wwill soon sort out a sounder so thats where the harder type shine through.I have seen bayer-mixer types in easy places been dug and coming out like they were put through a shreader,hard dog will grab hold and game over and most times take very little.

[Pick and bar 381]

I've always kept a hard type "Fatman" so can confirm what yr saying, this game requires all types, this has certainly been highlighted to me recently, after picking up the gauntlet once again proffessionnaly, not many of us would be happy to block in and leave a solid type, whilst a mark is made further up the glen.

My heart and soul will always be with the coloured hard bitten warrior, but for professional work, in the eye of the law, a clever political centre piece has to have a position.

First and for most a dog must be able to find! Hardness and staying power are only second if same dog can't bump into it.

Edited September 23, 2015 by Pick and bar

[Mosby 355]

I think alot of the issue with dogs that can't "find" underground is that the dogs just don't want to find. It shouldn't be hard to locate something in a hole. Just my opinion though.

[Rabbit Hunter 6,608]

'It shouldn't be hard to locate something in a hole'? I don't agree with that statement, it's not just a case of that, sometimes a dog is expected to find quarry in massive earths with many holes and many tubes and also a quarry that is constantly moving itself and not just waiting for the dog to bump into it. Sometimes it takes special dogs to find in the big old 'dungeons' of places.

[whippet 99 2,613]

'It shouldn't be hard to locate something in a hole'? I don't agree with that statement, it's not just a case of that, sometimes a dog is expected to find quarry in massive earths with many holes and many tubes and also a quarry that is constantly moving itself and not just waiting for the dog to bump into it. Sometimes it takes special dogs to find in the big old 'dungeons' of places.

how you got too look on it is , imagine a bramble bush holding fox , you know its there judgeing by dog / hounds, yes a big earth can be challenging but a terrier should find with ease ......

[fat man 4,740]

 

'It shouldn't be hard to locate something in a hole'? I don't agree with that statement, it's not just a case of that, sometimes a dog is expected to find quarry in massive earths with many holes and many tubes and also a quarry that is constantly moving itself and not just waiting for the dog to bump into it. Sometimes it takes special dogs to find in the big old 'dungeons' of places.

how you got too look on it is , imagine a bramble bush holding fox , you know its there judgeing by dog / hounds, yes a big earth can be challenging but a terrier should find with ease ......

 

Have to disagree as some places can be layered maybe 3-4 different levels spread over a wide area and a fox moving about in front of a terrier will leave scent all over the place leaving it very hard for a terrier to locate and also some of the places a fox can go are tight as a camels arse in a sand storm.Then pre-ban when it was legal to dig to badger it could dig itself in very quickly leaving the terriers job very hard especially a young dog.

[whippet 99 2,613]

 

 

'It shouldn't be hard to locate something in a hole'? I don't agree with that statement, it's not just a case of that, sometimes a dog is expected to find quarry in massive earths with many holes and many tubes and also a quarry that is constantly moving itself and not just waiting for the dog to bump into it. Sometimes it takes special dogs to find in the big old 'dungeons' of places.

how you got too look on it is , imagine a bramble bush holding fox , you know its there judgeing by dog / hounds, yes a big earth can be challenging but a terrier should find with ease ......

 

Have to disagree as some places can be layered maybe 3-4 different levels spread over a wide area and a fox moving about in front of a terrier will leave scent all over the place leaving it very hard for a terrier to locate and also some of the places a fox can go are tight as a camels arse in a sand storm.Then pre-ban when it was legal to dig to badger it could dig itself in very quickly leaving the terriers job very hard especially a young dog.

well I be pished with a dog that couldn't find in a big place and if I or hounds said he was there , I would try every terrier out.............

 

[stop.end 4,079]

a good terrier knows 1s at home 10 - 15 yards before he even gets to the hole, and a good terrierman will be able to read the signals his dog is giving out as they approach the hole. Just the same way you will see a gundog pick up a line and let you know there's a bird about so get ready. a good terrier will do the same, and no matter the size of the hole they should find, that's what the black thing on the end of its face is for..... its called a nose and that's the thing with most terriers bred these days, there bred by individuals who think a terrier with 30-40 handy digs over it its ready to stud or pup and if a dog cant find in a rangey spot its as good as useless to most men.

[Rabbit Hunter 6,608]

I agree that dogs should be able to find and stay etc. But the original statement was that it's an easy job to find something in a hole for a terrier, when really only good terriers can constantly be relied upon to find in the big old spots and it isn't as easy as pointing a dog at a hole and not seeing it again til you break through. It's not as simple as that. Every time a dog goes to ground it's a different environment and different challenge for them and only the best succeed consistently.

Too much macho bullshit ends up with empty yards.

[stop.end 4,079]

I agree that dogs should be able to find and stay etc. But the original statement was that it's an easy job to find something in a hole for a terrier, when really only good terriers can constantly be relied upon to find in the big old spots and it isn't as easy as pointing a dog at a hole and not seeing it again til you break through. It's not as simple as that. Every time a dog goes to ground it's a different environment and different challenge for them and only the best succeed consistently.

Too much macho bullshit ends up with empty yards.

you shouldn't have to point your terrier anywhere, that's what its been bred for.... to find and stay... I agree some holes your terrier will have to work for it, first of to find if its rangey, dig on with conviction if tight and when it gets where it needs to be.... if the fox doesn't want to bolt, it has to be able to persuade it to a stop, then stay and do its job...if a terrier with 2 good seasons over it cant fit that criteria and do this on a regular basis, then it would be back to the equation book for me.

[fat man 4,740]

a good terrier knows 1s at home 10 - 15 yards before he even gets to the hole, and a good terrierman will be able to read the signals his dog is giving out as they approach the hole. Just the same way you will see a gundog pick up a line and let you know there's a bird about so get ready. a good terrier will do the same, and no matter the size of the hole they should find, that's what the black thing on the end of its face is for..... its called a nose and that's the thing with most terriers bred these days, there bred by individuals who think a terrier with 30-40 handy digs over it its ready to stud or pup and if a dog cant find in a rangey spot its as good as useless to most men.

Big difference in a gun dog on a line of a pheasant or whatever and a terrier in a black dark hole and to say a terrier will know if there is something home from 15yds away is utter bollox.

[stop.end 4,079]

so if your walking to a burrow say a farmers asked you to check... you know the land so select the terrier you need for the job depending on age and experience it may be a new spot you have been asked to check by a farmer..... you telling me you cant tell by the way the terriers acting there has been activity and you think might be in here men, and 9 out of 10 the terriers right, this happens consistently over from being a young terrier pup being entered correctly to a second season terrier dug regularly ?..... I have been out a thousand times and lifted a terrier over a fence, and been 40 yards away from the burrow and I know the way MY dogs act if its looking likely... ive also been to places that looked 100% active and were not...and places dead as ceaser and they dropped and we opened up....

[WEDGEY 749]

I have to agree with stopend I've seen plenty of terriers Mark a hole from yards away fat man...as for the explanation its a lot of bollox lol

[hjckcff 1,737]

ive also seen and owned terriers that will mark from a good distance