Feed Or Not Feed

[sandymere 8,261]

Alas no Dead Eyes

 

All high activity sprinting type energy is mainly fuelled by glucose, fats power slower stuff, this is the basic biology of dogs, humans pigeons and probably Dinosaurs (just guessing on the last one). The brain and heart also uses glucose as its main energy source; ketones are part of the fuel use process and are also used as fuel by the heart and brain especially when glucose runs low.

 

 

To Quote myself

"Canine athletes depend on fats as their main fuel source when resting or at gentle exercise, 60% of energy supplied by fats at 40% of effort, however glucose converted from glycogen is needed especially during high intensity exercise such as sprinting. As exercise intensity increases the amount of glucose used increases whereas fat use remains relatively stable. So % of energy is supplied by glucose at 85% of effort. "

Edited October 7, 2014 by sandymere

[weasle 1,119]

Yes 8 has been burned on my retina reading this thread,If a dog has digested a meal at 9 10 in morning and needs to be ready to run again at 9 10 that night it leaves a short window to get the next feed in.

Yes gaz i am otherwise i wouldnt do it, have you tried it or just following the crowd.

Now where have my dogs been called Superior?

Some lads like there dogs stripped to the max,I like mine with a back on them,Whos wrong?Neither they do it there way i do it mine.But on a windy week my dog will do 5 nights if i ask it,Would the stripped one

I only work from experience and what i see, not what i read on net..Thats all the questions.

So now from the science from sandy it seems if a dog is going to be short somthing its going to be glucose,So why not just give it a drink of that or sweet tea before it goes out,Dont tell me you all already do you just forgot to mention it.

Any one answered the fox hounds yet?

 

 

 

[sandymere 8,261]

Yes 8 has been burned on my retina reading this thread,If a dog has digested a meal at 9 10 in morning and needs to be ready to run again at 9 10 that night it leaves a short window to get the next feed in.

Yes gaz i am otherwise i wouldnt do it, have you tried it or just following the crowd.

Now where have my dogs been called Superior?

Some lads like there dogs stripped to the max,I like mine with a back on them,Whos wrong?Neither they do it there way i do it mine.But on a windy week my dog will do 5 nights if i ask it,Would the stripped one

I only work from experience and what i see, not what i read on net..Thats all the questions.

So now from the science from sandy it seems if a dog is going to be short somthing its going to be glucose,So why not just give it a drink of that or sweet tea before it goes out,Dont tell me you all already do you just forgot to mention it.

Any one answered the fox hounds yet?

 

 

 

 

 

Sweet tea, glucose drink, lol to quote myself again lolol!

 

Carbohydrate in the Working Canine diet

 

It’s pretty much accepted that different types of exercise and lifestyles require different feeding regimes i.e. a lap dog in a posh pad will need a markedly different diet to a sled dog during a long distance race. Most dogs will fall somewhere between these two extremes with working dogs, in particular, needing individual management of their diet to optimize performance.

 

Canine athletes depend on fats as their main fuel source when resting or at gentle exercise, 60% of energy supplied by fats at 40% of effort, however glucose converted from glycogen is needed especially during high intensity exercise such as sprinting. As exercise intensity increases the amount of glucose used increases whereas fat use remains relatively stable. So % of energy is supplied by glucose at 85% of effort. Studies have shown that dogs undergoing high intensity exercise were only replacing approximately 65% of their stores of glycogen in the first 24 hours when fed a “normal meal” an hour or more post exercise This can result in dogs undertaking high speed type work, such as lurchers or any breed that push their own personal limits, not fully replacing their energy stores by the next day. Fine for the once a week workers but this may well have a negative impact on those that work their dogs on a more regular basis.

.

The process whereby glycogen is taken up by the dogs muscle cells is normally controlled by insulin but this is superseded while exercising and for approximately ½ an hour afterwards by another, faster, process, that could be described as direct uptake. As this process is so short acting, to utilize it, appropriate carbs need to be made available to maximize re-stocking of energy stores during or within half an hour of exercise. There is a reduced blood flow to the gastrointestinal system during exercise and for a period after but that does not mean that there is a complete cessation of digestion and appropriate carbs at this time will be digested and enter the blood stream, as glucose, to become available for this direct uptake system to utilize.

 

Previously I have advocated glucose, usually in drink form, as an appropriate form of carbs for this replacement but there are some problems with this. Simple sugars like glucose need to be diluted in a lot of water for digestion so water needs to be given at the same time or body fluids will be utilized when they are needed elsewhere but a stomach full of water soon after high intensity exercise may cause vomiting, the glucose/water effect may cause diarrhea and a sudden increase in glucose can cause a matching insulin high which in turn may lead to a reduction in blood glucose. As a dropping glucose will be counterproductive other alternatives have been tried to overcome this problem. Complex carbohydrates, i.e. cereal etc, are slow to break down and better suited to being part of the main meal as a baseline carbohydrate to replace the stores through the slower insulin process. Honey has been used in the past but it can have the same digestion problems as glucose plus it takes time and energy to be converted into glucose and may not be ready within the ½ hour time frame. Maltodextrins are sugars that fall between these two extremes they are easily/quickly absorbed, are less likely to case sudden rushes of glucose with the resultant insulin highs and are readily available.

 

Maltodextrin use in sporting dogs has been the subject of a number of studies, these seem to show dogs given a supplement prior to exercise had raised glucose levels during the exercise period, so glucose is available for direct uptake when needed; alternatively a supplement afterwards increased glucose levels within 15 minutes of administration. With both methods glycogen levels recovered significantly better during the following 24 hrs than those not receiving a supplement.

 

In conclusion the research suggests that a supplement of multodextrin may well increase work tolerance for sprint type exercise and improve recovery during the following 24 hours. Bearing in mind the above results and easy availability of maltodextrin type energy bars giving approximately one and a half grams per kilo of body weight to a hard working dog is defiantly worth considering.

[sandymere 8,261]

 

Only 35 years in dogs why you young whipper snapper , but "Food=energy, no food= no energy" sounds like the basic law of thermodynamics to me, alas that is science so will be unpopular but right non the less .

 

Ps The law of thermodynamics is natural science so put the shovel down weasel

Good man been goggling some new words.

So feeding once a day= no food.

Now go on to explain the hounds so...might not be on google though

 

Just found this post "Googling some new words"!!!!!!!!!!!!! nearly spilt me coffee lol when I've got to google to discuss basic science and physiology I'll worry lolol.

 

Now what about hounds??????? what is your question, don't worry I'll put any answers in simple terms for you lol.

[Gaz_1989 9,539]

Yes 8 has been burned on my retina reading this thread,If a dog has digested a meal at 9 10 in morning and needs to be ready to run again at 9 10 that night it leaves a short window to get the next feed in.

Yes gaz i am otherwise i wouldnt do it, have you tried it or just following the crowd.

Now where have my dogs been called Superior?

Some lads like there dogs stripped to the max,I like mine with a back on them,Whos wrong?Neither they do it there way i do it mine.But on a windy week my dog will do 5 nights if i ask it,Would the stripped one

I only work from experience and what i see, not what i read on net..Thats all the questions.

So now from the science from sandy it seems if a dog is going to be short somthing its going to be glucose,So why not just give it a drink of that or sweet tea before it goes out,Dont tell me you all already do you just forgot to mention it.

Any one answered the fox hounds yet?

 

 

 

These threads certainly sort the wheat from the chaff

[Dead Eyes 680]

Alas no Dead Eyes

 

All high activity sprinting type energy is mainly fuelled by glucose, fats power slower stuff, this is the basic biology of dogs, humans pigeons and probably Dinosaurs (just guessing on the last one). The brain and heart also uses glucose as its main energy source; ketones are part of the fuel use process and are also used as fuel by the heart and brain especially when glucose runs low.

 

 

To Quote myself

"Canine athletes depend on fats as their main fuel source when resting or at gentle exercise, 60% of energy supplied by fats at 40% of effort, however glucose converted from glycogen is needed especially during high intensity exercise such as sprinting. As exercise intensity increases the amount of glucose used increases whereas fat use remains relatively stable. So % of energy is supplied by glucose at 85% of effort. "

 

 

Anyone who talks in absolutes is usually wrong.

 

That said, some of the info you've given (re: humans) is generally accepted, depending on who you talk to, so I don't think you're entirely daft at all.

 

Where do wild dogs get these glycogen stores from then? Bearing in mind that taxonomically they're all still Canis Lupus?

[Silversnake 1,099]

so what about in summer (off season i believe) or when/if the dog has a couple of days off would it be detrimental/beneficial to skip a meal? as i said earlier my dogs miss every now and again but not before a hard day or night. i am sure not every body (good on those who do) works their dogs 7 days a week. am i harming my dogs? i have not noticed any negative effects.

[weasle 1,119]

Right back home days work done,dogs walked,meat collected now for my first meal in 24 hours

Gaz thats the best you can come back with,You dont even know what your trying to argue about

Sandy you obviously havnt read the thread,or choose not too Yet your jumping on the band wagon

Your first post you said animals and humans can get there energy requirements in one meal in 24 hours,You also said dogs humans are made to eat after exercise (simplified).

Thats all ive been saying from the start.

You can get as scientific as you like about it after that,but i wont be reading it.

Why because as others mentioned common sense and stockmanship is all you really need.

As ive grown up and spent most my life working with animals,good, bad, blood and guts,Ihave both a plenty,So will stay trusting them.

Can we stop going around in circles now?

[weasle 1,119]

so what about in summer (off season i believe) or when/if the dog has a couple of days off would it be detrimental/beneficial to skip a meal? as i said earlier my dogs miss every now and again but not before a hard day or night. i am sure not every body (good on those who do) works their dogs 7 days a week. am i harming my dogs? i have not noticed any negative effects.

Of course you wont Hurt it mate its a animal.

[weasle 1,119]

Heres the photo for you gaz i know you cannot be a top internet dogman unless you stick some picture up of meat or dog eating.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

How long will blackberries take to digest

 

 

 

[Flacko 1,732]

Well lads you won't get weasel to back peddle like he says he knows his dogs and a good eye and touch is what some men go by and of cause assessing the way there dogs are performing in the feild. But science has its advantages to that's why athletes fighters sportsmen keep getting better so each to there own ways if it suits you whatever your opinion do it your way.But always keep a open mind we can all learn something that's why we look at someone else's opinion atb Flacko

[Gaz_1989 9,539]

Right back home days work done,dogs walked,meat collected now for my first meal in 24 hours

Gaz thats the best you can come back with,You dont even know what your trying to argue about

Sandy you obviously havnt read the thread,or choose not too Yet your jumping on the band wagon

Your first post you said animals and humans can get there energy requirements in one meal in 24 hours,You also said dogs humans are made to eat after exercise (simplified).

Thats all ive been saying from the start.

You can get as scientific as you like about it after that,but i wont be reading it.

Why because as others mentioned common sense and stockmanship is all you really need.

As ive grown up and spent most my life working with animals,good, bad, blood and guts,Ihave both a plenty,So will stay trusting them.

Can we stop going around in circles now?

I aren't trying to argue. My days of arguing with muppets over the internet are over. I just can't see the advantage of working a dog on an empty tank when it doesn't need to be.

[nothernlite 18,030]

Lol

[weasle 1,119]

If you really want to learn go and make your own mistakes gaz,You wont learn blindly following others.

I"ll guarantee thats the best advice you will ever get on here

[Dewclaw69 484]

there's a lot of science in this but it has to be down to how each dog performs best and thats down to each owner and i'm sure everyone knows their own animals. i feed raw, never miss a days feed and feed once a day at night time ( if i lamp its after lamping). if i am lamping he'll get a light feed at tea time to top him up. i'm constantly watching how my dog carries weight and adjust feeds accordingly. after any lamping session he'll get a bigger feed.

my mate is the kennelman for a foxhound pack. he feeds fallen stock and also solid beef fat as they need the energy from fat. they always feed after working and somedays he does miss. this depends on how much weight the hounds are carrying and also the availability of flesh.

having said that, a hound is no lurcher. the hounds run steady all day and a lamping lurcher is expected to run in sprints throughout a session so their muscles work differently. bit like comparing a marathon runner and a 100m runner. a hound will also not run much past 5 years, some a little more , some less. we expect more of our dogs.

Edited October 8, 2014 by robs5230